Date: 03 Oct 2002
Time: 09:25:05

Comment

Do we really want the kingdom of God if it means His absolute rule in our lives?....OR..... Do we just want a relationship with Him on our own terms?

I've got other things to do than be involved in this banquet. Obviously MY THINGS are more important than what the king wants. LEAVE ME ALONE!

Okay... Okay.... I'll come, but I'm not wearing one of those monkey suits. If I can't come like I am, that's just too bad. The King ought to love me just like I am and not want me to change out of respect for him or his Son.

(Sounds kinda like Bonhoeffer's cheap grace.)

GC in IL


Date: 06 Oct 2002
Time: 18:48:09

Comment

I like the song based on this text, "The Wedding Banquet," copyright 1965 by Medical Mission Sisters, Philadelphia, PA. The owner of the publication is Vanguard Music Corporation, address Box 673 Radio City Station New York, NY 10101 Contact: Frank Siegfried Telephone: (212) 246-9179 We have it in a little yellow songbook by the Medical Mission Sisters called "Joy is lke the Rain"

Michelle


Date: 06 Oct 2002
Time: 19:40:07

Comment

GC, Bonhoeffer, INTRO THE THEOLOGY HAUNTING ME EVEN HERE!!! LOL I picture our little dying rural churches, you know the ones we, SLP's serve. Our ministry focus is Hospital visits and Funerals... Holding the hand till they are buried in the Church cementary...Now I know that is a minsitry, that is very valid...but when you have enthusiatic people ready to move on...makes it hard...the vision of a banquet and inviting all rich poor young old...the drug addict, the AIDS victim etc... Are our Churches ready to move? The Lord's Table is Open for all...then why don't we act like it? YOu can come to my church if you play my way attitudes...OH we can try a shared ministry (merger) but you have to use our church building, self preservation attitude....So, what is three churches out of four are on board...that one isnt ready...and maybe they arent supposed to be...CYNICAL SHE-PASTOR HERE


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 04:48:48

Comment

The Phil 4 text is so beautiful, one of my favorites. I don't want to miss the opportunity to preach the text. However, the wedding feast is one of my least favorite to preach. (The desire to skip over the Mat text is one reason I make myself stick to the lectionary!) They almost have a contrasting theme, one of carrots, one of sticks. Could they be supportive of each other in a preaching dynamic? I "need" to preach the Matthew text but "want" to preach the Phil text. Anyone else have a similar desire.

Pastor Lori (Who listens more than talks.)


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 06:06:11

Comment

I am really torn about which set of Hebrew Scriptures to use ... the Isaiah/23rd Ps. set can be used to underscore the positive and affirming message of God's continual/eternal care ... the wedding feast, the feast on the mountain, the table prepared in the midst of our troubles ... all great images of God's abundant love.

But the Exodus/Ps. 106 set gives the wonderful contrast between God's wedding banquet of love and our own misguided selfish revelry.

And Paul's letter to the Philippians can tie either package into a neat bundle with its admonition to to focus on that which is honorable and praise worthy.

How are other people handling these conjunctions?

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 09:00:14

Comment

Eric,

The ELCA follows the Isaiah series, and one of the congregations for whom I preach uses lectionary inserts. I usually don't vary from them unless I am specifically moved to do so. That makes your particular decision on which to use easy, but it is not always so easy to find a good message in the text prescribed.

Michelle


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 09:26:39

Comment

Michelle,Thank you for your thoughtful comments on the Atlantic Monthly article last week. I was "distracted by many things" and didn't get back to the discussion. Eric in Ks-Thanks for the Mark Twain Peace Prayer.

In the discussion about which lessons to preach (I, too, struggle with "where is the gospel" in many of Matthew's texts) I would go for the variety. There are going to be plenty more opportunities to be addressed by MT and the texts of judgement. Also, the 23rd Psalm shows up many times over. Aslanclan


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 10:31:10

Comment

Am I the only one confused by this text? The king invites his guests, who turn him down and make him look foolish, and then has his slaves invite everyone he sees both 'good and bad'. It almost seems like the king, out of embarassment is begging for guests.

They say that beggars can't be choosers, but that's exactly what the king does. He comes in to see the guests and finds one that is not up to par. What does he do? He simply destroys the one that does not fit in.

Now, granted I haven't done my work in exegeting this text properly, but it seems to me that the key here is in understanding the 'wedding robe'? What is it? Will I be caught without one? Why is it so important for the wedding banquet? What does it say about the God we worship? Does he really care if we are fashionably dressed?

Just a few thoughts.

A New Pastor on the Jersey Shore...


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 13:19:20

Comment

To add to the discussion of using multiple texts:

Both the Philippians text and this Matthew passage nicely harmonize grace and works while portraying what it is like to live in the kingdom. The Exodus passage, on the other hand, shows the "controversy" between grace and works and reveals that grace wins in the end. In the story of the golden calf, salvation is not a matter of the carrot or the stick; salvation, rather, comes through the intercession of a single person.

DSS


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 17:13:50

Comment

, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding robe?' This phrase is really haunting. Do we wear a wedding robe or is this related to the wedding vows? I haven't worked on this much yet, but the robe really stands out in this passage. Nancy-Wi

PS Be careful, the Bugbear virus is really around. Luckily I did not open an attachment without scaning it. Look in Yahoo for news and a virus scan /fix to annilate it.


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 18:55:11

Comment

OK, here I go ...

I serve a church that once was referred to as "the country club" church. It was a small church, of a about 100-plus in memership, with probably about 60 to 90 in regular worship. It was located diagnoally across the street from a country club. Without airing dirty laundry, suffice it to say that controversy drove a wedge right down the heart of the church. It now averages about 30-40 in worship, and was forced to move from a full-time pastorate to hiring me, a part-time local pastor. The remnant has a great heart, very intent on moving forward, but now has very limited resources.

The Scripture really speaks to me, and perhaps the church. Much was made of who might return once the former pastor was gone. I did nothing to reinforce that thought, and everything I could to say, "The church is here for those who are here, and those who might come, whomever they may be." As it stands, there has been no great return of the flock. We have steadily averaged around 30-40 in the five months I have been there.

We recently began offering breakfast at 8:30 a.m. Sunday, with the hope of getting more people to attend the youth and adult small groups that meet at 9:30. I work as managing editor at the local newspaper and because of a series of stories we are planning on homeless living in hotels, the thought occurred to me that we should invite the homeless to have breakfast with us on Sunday mornings. (The church is just about three miles away and we could provide rides, if needed) The leadership has jumped on the idea. I have considered this Scripture as a way of reinforcing what I believe may be a move of God's Holy Spirit. Only time and action will tell.

Incidentally: My take on the wedding garment is it is tied to Matthew 7:21-23: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.' What do you think?


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 18:56:42

Comment

so sorry. The above post was by PastorBuzz in TN


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 19:18:24

Comment

A friend of mine heard a sermon about this wedding banquet text that said the wedding party provided the wedding robes, and the guests simply put them on when they arrived. To not put on a wedding robe was an insult to the wedding party--sort of like showing up at a black tie event wearing a sweatsuit, even though the host handed you a tux or an evening gown at the door. Again, this is not scholarship but hearsay, and may simply be a way to "rescue" the king. But it does sound good to me.


Date: 07 Oct 2002
Time: 19:58:32

Comment

I also read that the wedding clothes were provided. But it's not a question of the dreaded fashion police, but rather what we "put on" in response to God's call; righteousness, or repentance, or whatever is a necessary response to God's invitation. Just as you wouldn't just show up at a wedding reception without bringing some kind of gift or thinking about what you were going to wear, you can't just show up at God's feast. There has to be some outward sign that you are taking the invitation seriously, and showing some respect. Many people were called or invited to God's feast, but this man was not chosen to stay, because, for whatever reason, he wasn't prepared and he didn't act respectfully.

DGinNYC


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 06:29:41

Comment

I'm preplexed by this parable also. At the end of the parable, one is bound hand and foot and thrown into the outer darkness.

Isn't that what happends to Jesus at the end of the Gospel-bound hand and foot to a cross and taken to God-forsakeness?

This would be easy to preach if it wasn't for the last part.

Pr. del in IA


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 06:35:46

Comment

It seems to me we have come to a very deep place in this parable. The metaphor of wedding suggest transforming union with God. We are invited into the new creation.

As long as we interpret this relationship exteriorly we will misunderstand - we will be only defined by our 'having.'

We are being called into 'being', relationship with God.

Our arrogance, indifference, hardness of heart will prevent our being at-one with God (at least in this life); and taking our relationship with God as something to be expected because after all we are 'Christians', born-again, is to lose our true inheritance which is to share the meal at the King's table.

tom in ga


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 07:30:06

Comment

22:7 The king was enraged. He sent his troops, destroyed those murderers, and burned their city.

22:13 Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

How do we deal with these difficult passages? Do these passages suggest a wrathful God who gets angry because we are disobedient? If so, God is as much of a tyrant as I am! So what do we do with these strange sayings?

It seems to me that when we refuse God's call and invitation, or if we take our status as Christians for granted, we actually do harm to ourselves - simply not desiring to be in relationship with God is damaging to us. We need to see in this parable that God invites us all to share in his love and joy, but because of our sinfulness we alienate ourselves from him desiring those things that we think will give us life.

tom in ga


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 08:25:09

Comment

While I like the "provided wedding clothes" idea, I can't find any scholarly support for it (yet - I plan to keep looking). The New Interpreter's Bible commentary makes the following comments: "How could those unexpectedly herded into the wedding hall from the streets wear the expected clothing, which all but one of them seem to do? Again, realism is sacrificed to theological meaning." The commentary goes on to refer to the early Christian symbolism of conversion as donning a new set of clothing.

In a footnote, the commentator says, "There is no evidence for the custom that kings provided the weddng attire for guests, an idea apparently originated by Augustine by inference from this parable and representing an attempt to understand the text by importing Pauline theology into Matthew (cf. Rom. 10:1-13; Phil. 3:7-9)."

Hope this helps....

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 09:43:23

Comment

Michelle,

I thought I'd go to the trump of doom before I ever heard anyone refer to the Medical Mission Sisters and their song about the wedding feast....Is that the one that says, "I cannot come. I cannot come to the banquet, don't bother me now, I've married a wife, I've bought me a cow..."? (Of course, we Catholic school kids had fun reversing those lyrics...)

Metz


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 09:56:11

Comment

Several have commented on the harsh aspects of this parable...Here's what I've read in different sources: It's actually two parables that Matthew put together in the editing process. One involved the loss of the Reign of God by Israel and its bestowal on the New Israel, and the other was about being ready for the Reign to come. Matthew's Jewish Christian community would have been affirmed by the first story, but chastened by the second. So the war waged by the king was seen as a not-so-veiled reference to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD/CE, even tho we might not see it that way from our perspective. (Did God really avenge his son's death by destroying Jerusalem?) At the same time, the "New Israel" was being warned that just "showing up" is not enough. In other words, the Reign of God is given them because others don't deserve it, but the "newbies" don't deserve it, either. So they need to guard against the same self-righteousness and apathy that they might accuse others of. As has already been mentioned, this sounds pretty much like a "cheap grace" parable.

As for the images of war and cruelty, all parables have something that either doesn't make sense or doesn't fit into our moral code. That's why the parables aren't moral lessons, but stories used by Jesus to illustrate or describe the Reign of God. (It was the Gospel writers, like Matthew, who turned them from parables into allegories, and later, the church often turned them into mere moral lessons, robbing them of their power!) So when the man discovers the buried treasure in the field, he (dishonestly) goes and purchases the field, without telling the owner what's in it...the opposite of a "pig in a poke." But the emphasis is not on his honesty, but on the desire for the Reign of God above all else. In my opinion, the parables are not about God destroying Jerusalem, what you should wear to a wedding, or how mean the father/king/(God?) was/is, but on the interplay between those who lost the R.o.G. and those who received it...and how similar they might actually be! That's why I'm probably going to use the longer form of the Gospel (vs. 1-14), rather than the shorter (1-10), even tho the commentary I'm reading suggests using the short form for the sake of simplicity.

As of yet, however, I have no earthly idea what I'll be saying! Metz


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 09:59:30

Comment

Testing...tried to submit two separate postings and neither did.


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 11:11:02

Comment

22:2 "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding banquet for his son.

22:3 He sent his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding banquet, ....

How often do you think the people are invited to be guests at a royal wedding? Was this a popular custom of the realm? What is going on here? Do the common people, no matter how wealthy receive such invitations?

It seems to me that the reason the common people are invited is because they are royalty in relation to the king, the bear the mark of the King, they have a share in his kingdom; and the Wedding Feast is a mystical meal of union between the King and his subjects (I in you, and you in me).

What is it that causes the commoner to reject such an invitation?

I found the following quote from Dorothee Soelle's The Silent Cry, instructive.

The greatest sin, according to a Hasidic saying, is to forget that we are royal daughters and sons ...


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 12:51:18

Comment

Hello all,

Coming on the heels of Christ cleaning out temple--and the church "leadership" questioning Christ's authority, it is clear that the parable is speaking to the church. When you understand the wedding garmet as the same clothes that Colossians speaks about (compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, patience), it seems to me that the invitation of the King is to come and join in party of following Jesus--the wedding clothes have more to do with what is inside us than outside us. At least, that is where I am thinking about going with the text. Peace. revloril in Montana


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 13:18:27

Comment

This is completely off topic ...

October is (supposedly) "Clergy Appreciation Month" and this Sunday, 10/13, in particular is supposed to the specific day for honoring pastors..... (Who declared this? Hallmark Cards?)

I jokingly asked a neighboring pastor if he had yet to be appreciated and his non-joking reply (as indicated by tone of voice) was "I'm not holding me breath". This led us into a discussion of the general level of honor (or dishonor) in which we clergy are currently held and our feeling of being appreciated and respected (or not), both of which seem to my friend and me to be at rather low ebb these days amongst clergy in general.

I'd be interested to know next week whether anyone here (that is, any DPSer) receives any sort of specific recognition, honor, or note appreciation on 10/13.

Now, back to our discussion of the king's son's wedding feast.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 13:20:28

Comment

It is so wonderful to see the multiple layers and understandings that can come from a passage as we break the word of God and follow the Spirit's leadings. Thanks to each of you for you ideas. We can see the robes as our personal relationship with Jesus. Our accepting the invitation and responsibilities are committment requires. Some of talk a good Christian live but never get around to it. We can also talk about our community and the relationships we share as we come together to be one bound by Jesus love and Spirit. This oneness requires us to put on a new understanding of cooperation and mutual purpose.


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 13:22:38

Comment

I always try to look for grace in a passage I am going to preach. I appreciate what Barbara Brown Taylor says in her article "Tales of Terror, Times of Wonder." She says that "the Bible offers us more than just consolation and encouragement. Its pages are also filled with terror, violence, and the knowledge that we are ultimately in God's hands." What makes Scripture terrifying is that points to a Sovereign God who is radically different than me, whose mind I can't read, whose decisions I can't predict, whose actions I can't control. The last part of this parable--about being thrown into the outer darkness--is terrifying. But one thing we must not do (which the Pharisees and Sadducees did do) is to take refuge in righteousness--suggesting that those who behave properly are terror exempt. Judgment, violence, rejection, death--these are things that are present in our world and our lives--and there is some hope (in a crazy sort of way) that they are present in the Bible as well. The fundamental hope to which all stories of terror drive us is that however wrong they may seem, however misbegotten and needlessly cruel, God may be present in them, working redemption in ways we are not equipped to discern. Just some food for thought. RevLoril in Montana


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 13:22:45

Comment

Finally we become the reflection on inviting hospitality which we see in our King. It is the open, receptive and grace-filled compassion for all peoples we seldom achieve.


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 13:23:53

Comment

I am so sorry somehow I keep sending without finishing. Thank you so much again for sharing.

PD-W.Ohio


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 14:03:17

Comment

Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Wales, and soon to be the Archbishop of Canterbury, in his Jublee Sermon, Bangor Cathedral, on June 11, 2002 states the following. It may have some bearing on the King in this story and his invitation for those within his realm to come and eat:

"King and kin: originally, indeed, the wrods were related. The Anglo-Saxon cyning was precisely a 'member of the kindred' or 'son of the kindred'; a person who represented the link between members of the tribe. It's curious that we, with most of the Germanic-speaking peoples, should have stuck with this word and avoided the Latinate words that concentrate on rule and domination. And throughout the history of monarchy, you could say, there has always been this tension between a model of domination and a model of representation .... It's there already in the Old Testament: there are warnings about a monarchy that will exploit and pauperise the people and there are joyful hymns for the king, celebrating his role as the leader of the peoples worship as well as their warfare; ..... He speaks for their common destiny - their shared call to worship God and their shared experience of pain and defeat.

Christ the King is the one who speaks for the whole human kindred, speaks for its fear and suffering, even for its guilt, by the unique miracle of his identification with us. And he is the one who leads and animates our worship, leading us to the eternal Father. He is king because he has earned the right to speak for us all; and in his speaking he confirms and deepens the kinship between us. He exercises his royal authority in extending further and further the bonds of human togetherness, so that we can no longer take for granted that some persons or groups or nations are doomed to be forever strangers."

"The good news of Christ's coming make possible new levels of belonging together in the human world; our 'kin' is a far odder and larger community than we could ever have expected. .... Christ's kingship reveals in the mysteries of Christmas and Easter calls all of us, people and monarch, to make the good news real and effective in the task of turning strangers into kindred."

Is it not at the banquet table where this gift is given?

tom in ga


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 14:03:52

Comment

The Pharisees denied the invitation.

The Gentiles came to the banquet (both 'good and bad').

The Wedding robe is baptism.

A New Pastor on the Jersey Shore...


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 14:23:38

Comment

Glad to hear that a few others know of the Medical Mission Sisters. Last Sunday we sang: "I built a Garden" from their 3rd book "Knock, Knock". Good stuff!

The Matthew Commentary by R.C.H. Lenski points out several Old Testament passages in which there are large groups of festal garments. The term is literally "Not having been garmented" which implies that the garment was provided. The fact that the man was speechless indicates that he could not make rebuttal that he was poor and had no garment to put on. This whole scene is similar to last week's parable, where the wicked tenants have the land taken from them and it is given to others "who will give him the produce." Something is expected, even of those to whom the intivation is sheer gift/grace.

The Isaiah 25 passage, which is the alternate First Lesson, also speaks of the wonderful thing God has done in destroying the city and becoming a refuge for the poor and providing a banquet for them of rich foods.

There is always judgment, but grace in the midst of it.

JRW in OH


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 15:40:47

Comment

Verse 22:12 and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding robe?' And he was speechless.

First I was thinkin' "What an ingrate!" Tell people to invite EVERYone... good and bad, and then when they DO COME TO THE PARTY kick them out! Nice guy!

One of the retired clergy at our text study today commented that the one that was invited to the wedding banquet... according to some commentary he had read... if someone threw a wedding party... the host had "gowns" for the guests... apparently the host had a gown for this guest too but this guest refused to wear said item.

God's grace can be refused... but it's still there.

pulpitt in ND


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 18:02:26

Comment

The pastor from the Jersey shore oversimplifies, and rightfully so. He/She says: The Pharisees denied the invitation.

The Gentiles came to the banquet (both 'good and bad').

The Wedding robe is baptism.

To add my part, I read this as one of Matthew's eschatological texts in which the community under persecution could hear the apocalyptic promises of exclusion of those who would not wear the robe. The discussion on who provides it is interesting if it is accurate, but the source of the robe does not seem to be in discussion here. It is not who provides, but whether you are willing to profess yourself to be a guest at the banquet by donning the robe (are you willing to make a public profession of Christ by submitting to wearing the new clothes of the baptised community?) Right now I am calling my sermon "Now Seating...Baptised. Party of 12." I am going to explore the idea that it is through our public "wearing" of our baptismal faith that we find ourselves welcomed to the banquet that is prepared by the Lord. I will carefully avoid the works righteousness angle, so don't go down that road. Those are my Tuesday thoughts. But Wednesday is coming, Thursday is next, yada yada yada. RevIsrael


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 18:05:54

Comment

By the way, I would differ with the Gentiles being welcomed in. This is Matthew, it is not about Gentiles, it is about those who have accepted the Good News. RevIsrael


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 18:41:38

Comment

So I still wonder, who is the one bound hand an foot and thrown into the outer darkness?

Does anyone see a a Christological in the "friend"?

Pr.del in IA


Date: 08 Oct 2002
Time: 23:39:37

Comment

I could go along with the garment explanations except I get tripped up on v.14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." This text looks like many are called, quite a few celebrate and one is rejected. Aslanclan


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 05:19:27

Comment

Metz,

Yes, "I cannot come," is the chorus of the song I referenced.

Michelle


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 05:22:38

Comment

Pr. Del in IA,

I do not see Christological reference in the reference to the one bound hand and foot and thrown into outer darkness, for the simple reason that I can't imagine the Son of God being thrown out of the Kingdom of Heaven, and this parable purports to be about the Kingdom of Heaven.

Michelle


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 05:57:44

Comment

On Sunday (whether we celebrate the Holy Eucharist or not) our people will be gathering (at least some of them) to share in a feast of the Word at the invitation of our Lord and King.

But many of us really have never heard an invitation to come (at least not consciously) and thus we gather for many reasons. In the south, it is the social thing to do; in the north, it is for business reasons so we can make contacts. We come really unsure of ourselves and why we are here (no one likes to hear about stewardship and the need of the giver to give). So we come not really sure whether or not we believe in this journey called the Christian faith. So of us will soon stop coming to church because we will not hear anything that we are seeking, we will draw back from community and from this weekly meal of the Word of God. We do this because we are unaware of our own hunger and thirst. The pathos in all of this is the judgment of God, that is we bring the darkness upon ourselves. God does not actively reject us but in rejecting him we move further and further away binding ourselves hand and foot and throwing ourselves into darkness.

As clergy, we are no different than our people, we are uncertain of the call, to share in this meal of joy - too often what we do feels like work and toil, preparing the table again and again is disappointing (preparing sermons) when the hearers never fully receive the messages. Somehow our preaching gets in the way of the message, I think. How do we preach to those who live in a God-less world. What do we say to those who come for the wrong reasons? How do we make them conscious of God's giftedness? How do we keep them and us from falling into the wrath of God?

tom in ga


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 07:24:55

Comment

Michelle,

What about "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

I may be wrong, but I don't think Jesus was using hyperbole while the heavens darkened and the earth shook.

If God forsakeness is not outside the kingdom of Heaven, what is?

Pr.del in Ia


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 07:43:42

Comment

I guess I am intoxicated by these parables - thus I am full and suffer from logorea!

Is not this parable about willfulness and willingness, and the choice between them?

tom in ga


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 07:57:09

Comment

The one who comes without a wedding garment is one who does not wish to engaged at all by the choices:

He responds to the second invitation without thought, reflection, or preparation; and thus like those who were preoccupied with other things, he comes to the banquet without proper attire.

He comes not caring, preparing, or involving himself.

These are the people who we know only too well, because they are ourselves.

tom in ga


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 08:00:24

Comment

I heard Fred Craddock preach on this text several years ago. I wish I could remember all of what he said. But I do remember him talking about the gatekeepers in the church -- those that try to keep people out before they ever get in to the feast - and God says everyone is invited, even to be compelled to come. Then it is up to God to be the judge - our job is to get them in. I would think not wearing the wedding robe would be as much saying "i don't want to be here" as those who made excuses.

I am preaching twice this Sunday. I plan to use this text for the regular service and Phil. for our sanctuary dedication. I haven't started much on this one yet, but preliminarily thought how we have built a sanctuary, but a lot of people will have excuses not to come. We need to go out and invite everyone in!

Hope you'll pray for us -- and anyone near Memphis you're invited to the dedication. it's at 3 PM. email me at: rachesw@midsouth.rr.com for info!

blessings, rachel


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 10:33:11

Comment

I recall hearing a story called The Ragman that I want to use this coming Sunday but I do not clearly recall all its particulars. I have ordered teh book, but it will not arrive in time for me to re-read the story. If anyone can post it or forward it to my email I would appreciate it. Somehow, it just seems to fit in so well with the idea that we are called to don the garment of Christian living, just as the wedding guests were provided with garments to wear to their banquet. Thanks, Rev. She singshine@yahoo.com


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 10:50:41

Comment

To revLori in Montana,RevIsrael,tom in ga and rachel.

As a new pastor I find your comments so very insiteful and full of indepth thought. I hope you won't mind if I incoroprate some of your comments into my sermon this week. I am in the course of study and we meet this saturday from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. I also hold a full time 50 to 60 hours a week job so you can see how much your comments will mean to me in preparing Sunday's Sermon.

cna in Ar


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 12:12:46

Comment

RevIsrael, You hit the nail on the head! Yes, the guest was willing to come in and to partake of the feast. One wonders...was that guest embarrassed to be seen walking toward the feast in the wedding garment? Too many "Christians" are willing to partake of the goodies but, as you said so well, are not willing to be known PUBLICALLY for their commitment to Christianity. Thanks to you and I think it was tom in ga, wasnt' it? lp in CO


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 12:41:53

Comment

cna in ar I come here to steal all of the great ideas i can. If it is not copyrighted material, I glom onto it without credit. Feel free to use anything I say in here without giving credit. I am just pleased to have gotten one right! Even a blind hog.... RevIsrael


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 12:54:21

Comment

cna in Ar,

I really have more questions than answers - which you are welcome to use - but they really are no more than a puff of wind!

tom in ga


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 14:45:13

Comment

Pr. Del in IA,

Yes, Jesus may have felt forsaken, but that doesn't mean that he WAS forsaken. I, along with some of the other posters on this page, see the one bound and thrown out as one who is not willing to be identified with the wedding feast (read, kingdom of heaven) by not wearing the wedding garment.

I don't believe Jesus would have distanced himself from the kingdom of heaven in this way.

On the other hand, if this analogy is calling to you, and you feel that it will work in your parish, then maybe for you and yours that is the way it is to be. Parables are perceived differently by different people, this is one of the glories of Jesus' stories. They rarely have only one meaning.

Michelle


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 15:13:58

Comment

cna in ar, use whatever you like or need. I feel like I am bumbling around in a vast sea sometimes, and it is the comments of others on this site that helps me grab on to some meaningful things.

some more thoughts...I sure think this parable speaks to the church today. It urgently reminds us that being part of a Christian community should make a discernible difference in who we are and how we live. This fellow still dressed in street clothes must have seen the difference between what he was wearing and where he was at. He was in the great banquet hall of the king--he was at the wedding feast for the royal son. The finest food. the best wine. He is the recipient of massive grace!!! Where is his awe...his wonder...his regard for such generosity? The other guests humbly and quietly trade in their street clothes for celebration clothes--but he is guzzling the drink and cramming the food in his mouth. His focus was all wrong. As Thomas Long says, "Just so, t come into the church in resonse to the gracious, altogether unmerited invitatin of Christ and then not to conform one'slife to that mercy is to demonstrate spiritual narcissism so profound that one cannot tell the difference between the wedding feast of the Lamb of God and happy hour in a bus station bar." revloril in montana


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 15:14:07

Comment

cna in ar, use whatever you like or need. I feel like I am bumbling around in a vast sea sometimes, and it is the comments of others on this site that helps me grab on to some meaningful things.

some more thoughts...I sure think this parable speaks to the church today. It urgently reminds us that being part of a Christian community should make a discernible difference in who we are and how we live. This fellow still dressed in street clothes must have seen the difference between what he was wearing and where he was at. He was in the great banquet hall of the king--he was at the wedding feast for the royal son. The finest food. the best wine. He is the recipient of massive grace!!! Where is his awe...his wonder...his regard for such generosity? The other guests humbly and quietly trade in their street clothes for celebration clothes--but he is guzzling the drink and cramming the food in his mouth. His focus was all wrong. As Thomas Long says, "Just so, to come into the church in resonse to the gracious, altogether unmerited invitatin of Christ and then not to conform one'slife to that mercy is to demonstrate spiritual narcissism so profound that one cannot tell the difference between the wedding feast of the Lamb of God and happy hour in a bus station bar." revloril in montana


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 15:15:10

Comment

cna in ar, use whatever you like or need. I feel like I am bumbling around in a vast sea sometimes, and it is the comments of others on this site that helps me grab on to some meaningful things.

some more thoughts...I sure think this parable speaks to the church today. It urgently reminds us that being part of a Christian community should make a discernible difference in who we are and how we live. This fellow still dressed in street clothes must have seen the difference between what he was wearing and where he was at. He was in the great banquet hall of the king--he was at the wedding feast for the royal son. The finest food. the best wine. He is the recipient of massive grace!!! Where is his awe...his wonder...his regard for such generosity? The other guests humbly and quietly trade in their street clothes for celebration clothes--but he is guzzling the drink and cramming the food in his mouth. His focus was all wrong. As Thomas Long says, "Just so, to come into the church in resonse to the gracious, altogether unmerited invitatin of Christ and then not to conform one'slife to that mercy is to demonstrate spiritual narcissism so profound that one cannot tell the difference between the wedding feast of the Lamb of God and happy hour in a bus station bar." revloril in montana


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 15:18:18

Comment

cna in ar, use whatever you like or need. I feel like I am bumbling around in a vast sea sometimes, and it is the comments of others on this site that helps me grab on to some meaningful things.

some more thoughts...I sure think this parable speaks to the church today. It urgently reminds us that being part of a Christian community should make a discernible difference in who we are and how we live. This fellow still dressed in street clothes must have seen the difference between what he was wearing and where he was at. He was in the great banquet hall of the king--he was at the wedding feast for the royal son. The finest food. the best wine. He is the recipient of massive grace!!! Where is his awe...his wonder...his regard for such generosity? The other guests humbly and quietly trade in their street clothes for celebration clothes--but he is guzzling the drink and cramming the food in his mouth. His focus was all wrong. As Thomas Long says, "Just so, to come into the church in response to the gracious, altogether unmerited invitation of Christ and then not to conform one's life to that mercy is to demonstrate spiritual narcissism so profound that one cannot tell the difference between the wedding feast of the Lamb of God and happy hour in a bus station bar." revloril in montana


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 15:20:00

Comment

whoops, sorry! Didn't mean to post twice. sorry. revloril in montana


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 16:43:16

Comment

Rev. She singshine@yahoo.com, this is probably not the story that you're looking for but I've always loved this story of the Prophet Ezekial and a wedding.Deke in TX- Pace e Bene

http://www.beloitdailynews.com/800/2rel26.htm


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 16:44:24

Comment

How about Elijah!!?! Deke in TX.


Date: 09 Oct 2002
Time: 22:27:05

Comment

In a surprise detour of my plans not to use the Exodus text, I find an irresistable draw to it. In writing a post for the Exodus site, it came to me that the contrast of Aaron and the Wedding Guest w/o the garment was this: Aaron made a terrible decision to comply with the community/culture and the Guest made a terrible decision not to comply. Isn't this our frequent struggle? Aslanclan


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 02:40:37

Comment

Someone once called the Gospel of Matthew a 'grim Gospel', yet what power and realism there is in it about the human condition.

The image of the rejection of the man wearing the wrong clothes is difficult. I wonder whether it is something to do with the idea that grace may be free but it isn't cheap? I am wary of saying that the passage is warning against the spirit of presumption, as this idea seems to veer towards self-righteousness. But the spirit of presumption is something I come across every day in parish ministry where you often feel 'used'.

This is a great site. Thanks to all of you, especially for that wonderful quotation from Rowan Williams.

Rev. Peter Lockyer, Guildford Diocese, UK


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 02:41:05

Comment

Someone once called the Gospel of Matthew a 'grim Gospel', yet what power and realism there is in it about the human condition.

The image of the rejection of the man wearing the wrong clothes is difficult. I wonder whether it is something to do with the idea that grace may be free but it isn't cheap? I am wary of saying that the passage is warning against the spirit of presumption, as this idea seems to veer towards self-righteousness. But the spirit of presumption is something I come across every day in parish ministry where you often feel 'used'.

This is a great site. Thanks to all of you, especially for that wonderful quotation from Rowan Williams.

Rev. Peter Lockyer, Guildford Diocese, UK


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 05:25:05

Comment

This parable is a prophecy by Jesus.

He is answering the question of Authority with Three parables.

1. The two brothers – Go or not , Who will obey the father. Who can chage. 2 . Judgment by the land owner on the unfruitful and disobedient

3. This parable – The first invited - invited by Christ, Too busy (Israel) The second invitation the apostles, Still too busy, reject, kill (Israel) -The destruction is the coming destruction of Jerusalem about 70 years later.

Everyone invited, People like me, Sinners and gentiles. Some come to the party realizing that there will be judgment, God is the bouncer at the door. He is looking for the right duds. The good and the bad all are invited to accept the King’s invitation for the Son. The Garment is Faith and the residence of the son in our hearts.

The extra warning is that even the last minute invites will be judged by the same measure as the first, The inside is the real mark of authority, authority on you.

First time ramble, long time reader.

Tbowen in GA


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 05:59:43

Comment

Here's a great comment about the wedding garments from Fred Craddock:

"Those who tend to wallow in grace, to sever sanctification from justification, may be startled by the king's question, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding robe?'" (Craddock, Preaching Through the Christian Year - A, p. 475).

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 06:09:00

Comment

In the August edition of the periodical, "Currents", they suggest that the theme of this text is "God's rejection of those who reject God's will." Then they go on to talk about how the king, despite the cruel and openly political rejection of his son's wedding and his authority by those first invited, still is determined to have a suitable celebration for his son. It is remarkable that he does this by inviting every "unsuitable" person that could be found. Yet even these "unworthy" ones are expected to join in with a proper mood of festivity. The article likens the guest who refuses to wear a clean wedding garment to guests at a New Year's Eve party who refuse to put on the party hats and use the noise makers. Our king expects us to not only attend the banquet, but to join in the celebration! Not to do so would be to reject God's purpose for the banquet in the first place. Pnderin' Pastor in IL


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 06:24:34

Comment

Matthew has done a lot of editing on this particular parable, as others have already pointed out.

The sayings Gospel of Thomas (#64)goes like this:

Jesus said, "A person was receiving guests. When he had prepared the dinner, he sent his servant to invite the guests. The servant went to the first and said to that one, 'My master invites you.' That one said, 'Some merchants owe me money; they are coming to me tonight. I must go and give instructions to them. Please excuse me from dinner.' The servant went to another and said to that one, 'My master invited you.' That one said to the servant, 'I have bought a house and I have been called away for a day. I shall have no time.' The servant went to another and said to that one, 'My master invites you.' That one said to the servant, 'My friend is to be married, and I am to arrange the dinner. I shall not be able to come. Please excuse me from the dinner.' The servant went to another and said to that one, 'My master invites you.' That one said to the servant, 'I have bought an estate and I am going to collect the rent. I shall not be able to come. Please excuse me.' The servant returned and said to the master, 'Those who you invited to dinner have asked to be excused.' The master said to the servant, 'Go out on the streets and bring back whomever you find to dinner.' Buyers and merchants will not enter the place of my Father."

Also check out Luke 14:15-24.

Then the question becomes; Why did Matthew do it?

Mark in WI


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 06:47:26

Comment

I wonder if the original purpose of those wedding garments was so that all would look alike, and not as good as the honored couple. With the poor it would cover their poor clothing, but with the first invitees, who seem to be more important people, they might "show up" the bride and groom. Is this why bridesmaids so often get such unattractive dresses?

Of course, in the end of the parable, all who get to stay in the presence of the king are equalized by the wedding garments they wear. Great symbolism for being clothed with Christ's rightesouness, putting on the garments of salvation, etc. Baptism is the great equalizer, as is forgiveness. None can claim to be any better, nor be judged to be any worse.

JRW in OH


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 06:56:42

Comment

Mark in WI asked: "Then the question becomes; Why did Matthew do it?"

Probably to address issues in his own community. Check out the exegesis at http://www.lectionary.org/

It lays out very succinctly the allegorical meaning of the tale as edited by Matthew to apply to the history of his community.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 07:23:02

Comment

On proper attire. Lack of proper attire changed the mood of the occasion. During my first year as a Presbyterian minister the church leaders planned an open-to-everyone communion service at the local homeless shelter. It was the first time such an event was ever conducted at the dining hall. There were about 60 adults and a few children. As the liturgy went on, the elements were served and we bowed our heads for prayer, unexpectedly the aroma of the fresh baked commnion loaf disappeard as a fowl smell filled the room. From the back of the room a man said "Hey man, put your shoes back on..." as the liturgical leader said ...in the Name of Jesus. Amen."


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 07:50:33

Comment

The exegsis is interesting, but what bothers me is that it seems to view these words post resurrection. If Jesus did speak these words, the missionaries could be the disciples, the unworthy guests, the sinners of the time. Perhaps then the clothes of righteousness or the connection to the wedding clothes is the lies in the heart of the guest? Is Jesus fortelling the destruction of Jeruselum? if the city is Jeruselum, or could it be the destruction of the old religious ways. Just some thoughts. Nancy-Wi


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 09:07:21

Comment

After a week or so of chewing on this, still am leaning toward my initial post, (the first one on the list), with one minor change. It seems to me the focus is on the Son.

Those who declined the chance to honor the son were destroyed. The one who refused to dress appropriately wouldn't show the proper respect for the son, and was removed.

I am thinking of introducing the whole sermon with the surprising realization that the kingdom of God has BOUNCERS who are responsible to keep out the undesirables and the trouble-makers. I never would have thought it!

Not everybody who's invited gets in. (or to put it more biblically, MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN).

GC in IL


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 09:37:05

Comment

By the way, did y'all know that the "Many are called; few are chosen" line is a rhyming, poetic play on words in Greek? The Greek is

Polloi gar eisin kletoi; oligoi de eklektoi.

called ("kletoi") and chosen ("eklektoi") are similar, related and rhyming words in Greek, but this is lost in English translation. (The closest we might come is to say, "Many are called, but few are called out" -- but that would have other connotations in English.)

I don't know if that is of any value to anyone, but I was reminded of it during my readings on this pericope and thought I'd toss it into the mix.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 12:36:39

Comment

I plan on giving everyone in worship a printed invitation to God's banquet and asking how they will respond. Thanks to all for the thought provoking comments. Revjlwd in Maine


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 13:09:17

Comment

Two points that have been made are both true and should be held up in preaching this parable. First, merely COMING to the party is not enough; one must JOIN the celebration. Second, it is God who will decide who "stays" and who "goes."

There is scholarly backup for the notion that the host provided the garments. (One such source is in the "Social-Science Commentary on the Synoptic Gospels" by Malina and Rohrbaugh.) As further support, internal, notice that the question is not, "Why did you come without proper attire?" but rather, "HOW DID YOU GET IN...?"--an incredulous question that makes sense if indeed the host has done all that is necessary to provide for his guests. And that is "grace upon grace."

As for "many are called but few are chosen": this line has significance to the parable in that the outcast is shone as being no different from the original invitees...for he, too, has shown his disregard for the king, and thus he joins the "called many"--while the "chosen few" enjoy the king's party.

I think this parable served as both welcome and warning to those in Matthew's (post-Easter) community. It was a word of welcome to those who had experienced estrangement (being cast out as improper themselves) from their families and synagogues--but lest anyone presume too much upon even this new status, they were warned to don "kingdom clothes." Such welcome and warning are still needed. We do not have the luxury of assuring people that all will be well if they neglect to follow God's ways--for the "binding" and the "darkness" and the "teeth-gnashing" take many forms in our world, but all of them grow out of waywardness and sinfulness.

There may be a connection to explore with the Philippians reading here--namely, that of the "wedding garment" and the indwelling of Christ which transforms us into those who can dwell on what is virtous.

Hope some of this helps... (but I still don't know how I'll preach it!)

TK in OK


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 13:50:54

Comment

TK in OK wrote: There is scholarly backup for the notion that the host provided the garments. (One such source is in the "Social-Science Commentary on the Synoptic Gospels" by Malina and Rohrbaugh.)

TK -- can you give Malina & Rohrbaugh's own text and a citation? I'd like to see it.

Thanks. Eric in KS


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 15:35:10

Comment

To Eric in KS:

the citation is on p. 135 from the book I referenced (Fortress, 1992). The text is as follows: "22:10-13 The king would have proper garments ready for the non-elites coming to the banquet. Yet the king spots a person who does not put on the garments provided, thus shaming the king. The result predictably is that the improperly garbed man is shamed by being thrown out by the attendants."

This particular commentary offers many relational insights into the dealings between people and groups in ancient Palestine. M&R use several recurring "reading scenarios" in their comments, one of which is that the culture out of which the gospels originate is an "Honor-Shame Society": that is, much interpretive value can be had by asking who is being shamed and who is being honored (based on what we know of such standards) in the text. That explains the king's actions--he is put on the spot, challenged by this impropriety, and he MUST behave according to socially acceptable standards, even if the invited ones and this guest do not. The king would actually behave shamefully if he put up with such nonsense.

Of course, one unspoken question here--and probably the "good news"--is that, in the kingdom of heaven, it is God who sets the table and the standards. Therefore, God is not bound by earthly rules--God is free to behave mercifully and surprisingly. While the earthly king in the parable does EXACTLY what is expected, Jesus has prepared us to expect the unexpected with the divine ruler.

TK in OK


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 15:48:41

Comment

TK in OK -- Thanks, I really appreciate that. And the "honor-shame" society motif is one I have read of before.

Another source for the king-provides-the-garments argument, apparently, is Robert Grundy, "Matthew, A Commentary on His Literary and Theological Art"(Eerdmans Publishing Company: 1982). I haven't read the source, but the IVP Commentary on Matthew cites Grundy for the proposition: "Some hold that hosts may have provided wedding garments to guests at the door."

In addition, I've found that the Orthodox Churches teach this as a background understanding of the parable. FAQ pages on websites maintained by the Russian Orthodox Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Washington, DC, and other Orthodox congregations all include reference to this.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 16:34:46

Comment

I've enjoyed reading all this, but my wife just called me for supper and I have to go. Brent in Pincher


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 17:18:27

Comment

Hope you have the right clothes on ..., lest you be cast out into the darkness. (heh-heh) (Couldn't resist the temptation!) PastorBuzz in TN


Date: 10 Oct 2002
Time: 22:17:42

Comment

Eric

The wedding robes being provided by the host is mentioned in an old Augsburg-Fortress commentary on Matthew (single volume, brown cover).

chaos


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 04:41:51

Comment

Those who have been considering using the Wedding Banquet Song ("I have bought me wife; I have married a cow") can find the full lyrics at this address:

http://www.discover-net.com/~dcpeters/Done/banquetsong.htm

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 06:23:33

Comment

Parables were used to "catch" the hearers. So who of Jesus's listeners would have been "caught" with this parable? The verses afterward lead me to think that the Pharisees were pretty miffed by this parable. What is in here that wouild have caused a reaction from them?

I think too many times we tend to disect a parable as if it was an historical event (such as trying to figure out if a king would provide wedding robes) when in fact it is a story designed to draw the listeners in and then provide them with a "gotcha experience" which would then lead them to re-evaluate their thinking/practice. What I'm trying to say is that we can learn a lot from the context of the telling.

John near Pitts


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 06:24:48

Comment

Parables were used to "catch" the hearers. So who of Jesus's listeners would have been "caught" with this parable? The verses afterward lead me to think that the Pharisees were pretty miffed by this parable. What is in here that wouild have caused a reaction from them?

I think too many times we tend to disect a parable as if it was an historical event (such as trying to figure out if a king would provide wedding robes) when in fact it is a story designed to draw the listeners in and then provide them with a "gotcha experience" which would then lead them to re-evaluate their thinking/practice. What I'm trying to say is that we can learn a lot from the context of the telling.

John near Pitts


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 06:50:17

Comment

Ah Once - a long time ago - Our families sent out wedding invitations -

In Joy, we invite you to join with us as we unite together with God in......

Many RSVPed yea, some nay, some no reply. Many hours of preparation, many months of anticipation, and finally the day of CELEBRATION. The Wedding Day was here.

There came one to the wedding feast, a former beau, whose intent was not to rejoice nor to celebrate. His was to get to the bride 'just in time.' To say just the right words, to make just the right plea, to stop the whole thing and do what? We're not sure to this day. This was not our picture of a 'perfect' wedding day. This was not the desired attitude of our quests. This 'situation' was not what we wanted our quests or ourselves to be focused upon. This was one invited quest that we would have loved to have hog tied and booted from the face of the earth! Not dramatically, but with just the right amount of muscle grease to get the point across. Instead, the parents of the bride and a few well chosen groomsmen kept the 'offending party' at bay.....

So, why would a person come to a feast whose intent is not on celebrating and rejoicing? The answers are many .... why do we, on Sunday mornings, on weekdays, or for that matter any hour of the day arise and choose not to celebrate? I feel a heart attitude and a 'not my will but Thy will' desire test coming on. My issue right now is who do I identify with most in this story? What about you? Mitcavis


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 08:14:24

Comment

These discussion points are really helpful. I am struggling with the parable and your remarks have kick started me .... I am thinking about the wedding garment being woven out of many strands - the ones listed by Paul as the fruits of the spirit are a good start. I don't think it matters about the detail of whether or not the guests were provided with the clothes - surely the fact that the one was caught without and had nothing to say in his defence implies that all the other guests were correctly dressed. I am also thinking it is to do with responding to our call (the invitation to the wedding) and then responding to the additional tugs we all get (putting on the wedding clothes). I am also thinking about thinking that it has something to do with just being in church as a "shallow Sunday habit" so not wearing the robe. It takes more than that to wear the wedding feast robe. Sorry for the ramble ... thank you all for your thoughts. Vivthevic - from England.


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 08:24:34

Comment

Something came to me last night as I was drifting off to sleep; the Father is the King and Jesus is the groom, but who is the bride? This thing about wedding garments has made me wonder if there are historical sources to back up that the guests were required to wear some special clothes or is it perhaps more like our weddings where it is the groom and the bride who wear ritual clothing.

Jesus called Himself on several occasions, the bridegroom and in the mystical traditions of Christianity it is the church that is the bride. Since we all make up the church then is it possible that the affront is because the "friend" has never really committed to Christ and the church? And therefore is a counterfeit bride.

It's late in the week for this kind of musing but who has control of where their mind goes in the twilight between waking and sleep? Deke in TX - Pace e Bene


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 08:28:20

Comment

In reply to "John near Pitts" with re. to "who was caught": that is an excellent point; however, we have to have some notion of WHY they were caught, which is the only value of knowing historical background. I agree that pursuit can take us too far afield at times, however.

In this case, as you point out, it is clear that the Pharisees/religious leaders were "caught" by this as well as the foregoing and following words of Jesus. So we must ask WHY they were caught.

First, I like to bring the story closer to home by referring to the Pharisees as "hard-working, well-meaning religious folks"--that usually accounts for all of us in church on a Sunday morning. The reason they are caught (in this parable as in the others) is that Jesus tells them not to presume upon their "party status." They saw themselves as "chosen" in distinction from others--but Jesus warns them that they might not be "fit" as guests. The reason it is of value to know that often hosts provided the wedding garments is this: "hard-working, well-meaning religious folks" often fall prey to a do-it-yourself spirituality, believing they are capable or meritorious by virtue of their own efforts or background. Jesus not so subtly suggests that they cannot rely upon their own resources, but must rely upon God's grace--that is the only standard for being "chosen." Just coming to the party is not enough (being "called"); one must be "clothed with righteousness," as well. Otherwise, even "hard-working, well-meaning religious folks" will find themselves "outcasts." This doesn't sit well with Jesus' audience then; and I presume it is just as provocative now. One of the things that bothers me most about Jesus and his little stories is how often they are aimed at the set-apart leaders of the "hard-working, well-meaning religious folks"--in other words, "moi."

For more on this see my previous posts. Thanks for the dialogue--it helps me sharpen my own homiletic approach.

TK in OK


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 08:28:36

Comment

Mitcavis,

Wow. I believe that illustration fits so well, since I am planning to focus this year on the Wedding Garment, rather than the refusal of the invitation. I plan to use your story, even though I cannot (and would not) say who it was who experienced this event.

One reason I am focusing on the "second wedding parable" and not the first is because I am having an open house for my birthday tomorrow (Saturday) and am rather frightened over how many people will not come. If I preached on that text, I would muddy the waters with that which doesn't belong.

I am rather glad to have the option of the wedding garment, even though it troubles me a bit that the King's response is so strong. Where is the mercy? Where is the gospel? Maybe the mercy and the gospel is here for the other guests who will no longer need to be troubled by the antics of one who wishes to stir up trouble rather than rejoice and celebrate.

I am also reminded of the day my sister got married, and our father was behaving rather childish. We later learned he was suffering from the early stages of Pick's Disease, a dementia that first attacks the frontal lobe of the brain where behavior is controlled. Our actions were similar to yours, for somewhat different reasons. We did our best to control his behavior so that it wouldn't be a problem for the others who were celebrating.

I am thankful that we are not the king, that we are not responsible for determining who intentionally works to subvert the joy of others, and who is merely trying to live with the consequences of diseases that affect the brain. I am glad I don't need to bind one hand and foot to expel that person from the feast.

Now to figure out how to inspire the joy that befits the occasion...

Michelle


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 08:31:08

Comment

Mitcavis: I am helped by your question and "So, why would a person come to a feast whose intent is not on celebrating and rejoicing?" Aslanclan


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 08:38:02

Comment

Michelle, all of your DPS'er friends will be there for your birthday open house in spirit! Happy Birthday!

Mark in WI


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 09:56:39

Comment

This is my first contribution. Regarding this parable, I remembering reading an article in National Geographic regarding Muslims who make the pilgrimage to Mecca. One thing is required of all. Everyone must put on the same white garment regardless of wealth or class. My understanding of this is so that everyone appears equal at Mecca. Perhaps this could be tied into a sermon on this parable.


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 11:07:49

Comment

I posted this on the Exodus passage window... but would like all of your imput...

I sometimes wish we would change OUR minds... the gambling industry is dropping millions to get it here in our State... I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has some "real life" stories that I might use to help communicate the "evils" of public gaming on a state that is fighting it. I also am concerned that our nation is apparently thinking the ONLY way to defeat evil is with more evil. Not to mention the "sniper" in the Washington, DC area... what more can we say from the pulpit to our people who watch in disbelief that something so grievous could happen.

With little work... one could re-write the following prayer of UMC Bishop Woodie White...he used to charge his congregations with this disturbing benediction:

"Now, may God torment you --- May God disturb you --- May God keep before you --- the hungry, the dying, the oppressed, the rejected. Then, may God give you the compassion to do the work you have to do --and may you do your best --- and then -- and only then -- - May God grant you peace --- until we meet again. -Amen-

Thanks for the discussion, once again...

I'd appreciate any comments on or off the "air"...

pulpitt@702com.net aka pulpitt in ND


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 11:27:22

Comment

What's wrong with going to a banquet? Folks are not being invited to a work party. A banquet is where you go to be fed, nurished, and have a good time. The king wants to feed them and they want to eat somewhere else? or not eat? not be nurished? not celebrate? Brent in Pincher


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 11:39:15

Comment

I was thinking of the "No Excuse Sunday." It says: "Cots will be placed in the foyer for those who say 'Sunday is my only day to sleep in.' We will have steel helmets for those hwo think the roof will fall in if they come to church, coats for those who think the church is too cold, and fans for those who say it is too hot. We will have hearing aids for those who say 'The minister talks too softly,' and cotton for those who say she preaches too loudly. Score cards for those who wish to list the hypocrites present. Some relatives will be in attendance for those who like to go visiting on Sundays. There will be TV dinners for those who can't go to Church and aslo cook dinner. One section will be devoted to trees and grass for those who like to see God in nature. Finally the Sanctuary will be decorated with both Christmas poinsettias and Easter Lillies for those who have never seen the church without them." I know the kingdom of God is not the church. Maybe that is the main point of Matthew - religion is not spirituality. Religion may be in invitation, but it is not the banquet. But the above list makes me think what excuses some of us have for not living in, or trying out, the ways of God, or not living by grace. "I've always done it myself." "I can't let go." "How can there be a God when bad stuff happens in the world." "I can beat this problem if I just try a little harder." "Problem, what problem?" "Why would I live by my spirit when my ego is giving me all this misery, which I am used to?" "How can you trust what you can't see?" "I can do it myself!" I just think the ego finds lots of excuses why we can't live by grace - hence go to the banquet. Brent in Pincher


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 13:17:02

Comment

**** wondering if this is helpful for anyone...

The Gospel of Matthew seems to indicate that heaven can be compared to a great wedding banquet.

The church community is the wedding rehearsal.

Just as wedding rehearsals are difficult at times and rough around the edges, so are church communities.

As church members of the Body of Christ we are also the wedding guests. Although we aren't perfect we are still invited to share all of the best things found at a wedding thrown by a king.

Sometimes it is easy to forget about this invitation. We can all suffer from spiritual amnesia at times and forget all about what we are rehearsing for - the Great Wedding Banquet.

The apostle Paul had to remind two women in Phillipi what they were rehearsing for... he reminds Euodia and Syntyche to 'be of the same mind' and then he reminds them that their names are on the guest list in the book of life...

Yes, this is the wedding rehearsal, and things don't always go so smoothly, but we can't allow the rough spots take away our real joy - that we have been invited as guests to a Great Wedding Banquet.

Paul reminds us to 'rejoice' and know that the Lord is near.

A New Pastor on the Jersey Shore...


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 13:38:24

Comment

To "New Pastor on the Jersey Shore": great insight connecting Jesus' story with the Philippians' story! Perhaps a further connection could be made with the Exodus reading--namely, that the people at the foot of Sinai messed up the "rehearsal" big time; supposedly being made "fit" for land of promise, the law was scarcely given before it was broken.

TK in OK


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 14:28:30

Comment

Still thinking about why would a person go to a feast whose intent is not on celebrating and rejoicing? Two things come to mind: one personal: for most of the wedding receptions I've attended, I would have to say, except for the love of the couple, I wouldn't choose to go at all, ever. I find it exhausting to make the small talk, to mingle with strangers, to go through the toasts and customs. --Perhaps it is that "Introvert" dynamic.--I go out of discipline (duty?) and not because there will be pleasure of drinking and eating. However, for the sake of the couple, I'm not sitting grimly in a corner and pouting!! Hopefully, I have put on "the garment" to honor them.

A second thought, If I were living in poverty, in the subsistence economy of most of the people in Matthew's time, in Jesus' time, I would be most excited to come to the feast. Which, of course makes the setting of the parable a bit more confusing to me...

So does the life of abundance and relative ease dull the image and the desirablity of the banquet/feast? Aslanclan


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 14:31:00

Comment

There's a nice little article at Religion Online tying the Exodus reading and this one together:

http://www.religion-online.org/cgi-bin/relsearchd.dll/showarticle?item_id=595

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 14:49:08

Comment

Mark in WI, and all,

Thank you.

Michelle


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 15:43:38

Comment

Robert Capon's Book Parables of Grace speaks to the allegory of the wedding garment this way; We put on the scandal of Christ and his agenda...We are asked to "identify" with Christ as one who comes to the last lost and least. WHen we reckon ourselves "as good as dead" we've put on the garment. It's as if now we're in on the cosmic joke that Christ's ignominious "loss" is really eternal gain. Others allegorize the garment by likening it to baptism, charity(Augustine) faith (Luther) bearing fruit (Calvin). Dr. James Boyce of Luther Seminary describes the book of Matthew as having a strong call toward righteousness. Perhaps the garment might be taking up such a call? (Mathew 5:20 righteousness exceeding the scribe, 7:21 Not all who say "Lord Lord" and 21:43 those not bearing fruit...) Hope some of these seedlings help. SIgned, Not creative enough to devise a fancy handle (in MT)


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 16:46:50

Comment

Because we have been invited to the banquet, we will strive for the truth in all things. We will strive for honor, justice, and purity. We will accept the call to behave in a worthy manner at the feast of the King. We will accept the garment of truth, honor, justice, and purity, and we will wear it with confidence that this is what the King, what God intends for us.

But sometimes, that garment of truth, honor, justice, and purity will slip. We may lose it altogether, for we do still fall to the temptations of sin. Then what shall we do when the King finds us exposed, wearing our sin like fig leaves, or like armor?

Will we be speechless? Defensive in our sin? Or will we start to look around, “I had it here, somewhere. It was a gift given to me in baptism, I know it can’t be far. Help me to find it. Wash away my sin. Cleanse me, and clothe me in your righteousness.”

Michelle


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 17:11:11

Comment

New Pastor on the Jersey Shore, What a great insight about the church being a rehearsal! If only we put as much time, energy and other resources into being the church as we do into weddings! Are you SURE you are new???? lp in CO


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 19:43:22

Comment

When we stand on the promise of Christ our King, we can be sent out with Bishop Whites benedition. New Pastor and Brent Pincher. I think that your message can mesh and I will end with the benedition and standing on the promises. This has been a rough week, death that took many days and preparing for a charge conference. I was so exhausted, meeting each night, you have all answered my prayers!

Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday dear Michelle, Happy Birthday to you! We are all coming to your party! Even if it is only thorough our hearts and souls. I hope your day, is truely a celelbration, and that all who come wear a birthday... just kidding must be the relief I am feeling! Nancy-Wi :->

Micheale


Date: 11 Oct 2002
Time: 19:45:17

Comment

When we stand on the promise of Christ our King, we can be sent out with Bishop Whites benedition. New Pastor and Brent Pincher. I think that your message can mesh and I will end with the benedition and standing on the promises. This has been a rough week, death that took many days and preparing for a charge conference. I was so exhausted, meetings each night, you have all answered my prayers! I will be so glad to have a few days off next week.

Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday dear Michelle, Happy Birthday to you! We are all coming to your party! Even if it is only thorough our hearts and souls. I hope your day, is truely a celelbration, and that all who come wear a birthday... just kidding must be the relief I am feeling at having a sermon start! Nancy-Wi :->

Micheale


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 07:38:54

Comment

Although its a bit late in the week (I've been on vacation), here's one insight that I plan to develop: One thing about wedding garments,they all look the same. Many of us who come to the Christian faith don't mind surrendering a bit of our uniqueness so that we may be part of a timeless gospel promise. However, our post-modern inclination is to remain as we are. Some may see coming to the faith (donning a wedding garment) as an intolerable act of blindness (like a lemmming or something). But we MUST surrender ourselves in order to follow Christ.

I like the image of the people participating in a baptism in "O Brother Where Art Thou". All are wearing the same robes and singing the same hymn. That's what we strive for -to wear the robe.

David in NC


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 09:07:39

Comment

It is Saturday afternoon and I have come to the point where all of the work and thinking now must make sense. This group of marvelous saints are truly partakers of this feast we all wish to share. How I wish seminary was full of such desire to be in God's Spirit! May the breath of God be on and in all of us tomorrow and may we not fear being seen at the wedding! from Jamaica, VT


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 09:18:49

Comment

Pray for me! I have to turn all this into a Stewardship sermon! My angle, though, as many of you have pointed to, is that we are called to make our faith visible (the garment). It's not a faith/works dichotomy -- works emanate from faith in Christ. It's like making our baptismal vows visible. I tell parents in baptismal counseling that I will be making the sign of the cross in oil on their child's forehead. The oil is invisible -- it is up to us to make that sign visible to the world by the way we live into the baptismal vows throughout our lives.

And stewardship? How we allocate the bounty God gives us is certainly a visible sign (garment).

Any thoughts for a last minute puller-together of thoughts like me?

revwaf in Coconut Grove


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 09:19:00

Comment

Pray for me! I have to turn all this into a Stewardship sermon! My angle, though, as many of you have pointed to, is that we are called to make our faith visible (the garment). It's not a faith/works dichotomy -- works emanate from faith in Christ. It's like making our baptismal vows visible. I tell parents in baptismal counseling that I will be making the sign of the cross in oil on their child's forehead. The oil is invisible -- it is up to us to make that sign visible to the world by the way we live into the baptismal vows throughout our lives.

And stewardship? How we allocate the bounty God gives us is certainly a visible sign (garment).

Any thoughts for a last minute puller-together of thoughts like me?

revwaf in Coconut Grove


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 09:19:06

Comment

Pray for me! I have to turn all this into a Stewardship sermon! My angle, though, as many of you have pointed to, is that we are called to make our faith visible (the garment). It's not a faith/works dichotomy -- works emanate from faith in Christ. It's like making our baptismal vows visible. I tell parents in baptismal counseling that I will be making the sign of the cross in oil on their child's forehead. The oil is invisible -- it is up to us to make that sign visible to the world by the way we live into the baptismal vows throughout our lives.

And stewardship? How we allocate the bounty God gives us is certainly a visible sign (garment).

Any thoughts for a last minute puller-together of thoughts like me?

revwaf in Coconut Grove


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 09:19:12

Comment

Pray for me! I have to turn all this into a Stewardship sermon! My angle, though, as many of you have pointed to, is that we are called to make our faith visible (the garment). It's not a faith/works dichotomy -- works emanate from faith in Christ. It's like making our baptismal vows visible. I tell parents in baptismal counseling that I will be making the sign of the cross in oil on their child's forehead. The oil is invisible -- it is up to us to make that sign visible to the world by the way we live into the baptismal vows throughout our lives.

And stewardship? How we allocate the bounty God gives us is certainly a visible sign (garment).

Any thoughts for a last minute puller-together of thoughts like me?

revwaf in Coconut Grove


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 09:24:21

Comment

Hi all.

One thought crossed my mind last night - Hope it not too late!

We have spent a good amount of time trying to determine what it means to have a wedding gown, trying to determine how we acquire one, trying to discern if we are indeed wearing one and, of course, who is NOT wearing one...

I submit that these are not the questions this parable is addressing! This parable is saying to us (the SERVANTS of the master, NOT the guests), "Get out there and bring people in." Who stays and who doesn't are not our concern! That's up to the host of the party!

It's the same point as the parable of the wheat and the weeds (wheat and tares, for those of us who are a little older :-) ). Both good and bad plants will be found in the field, just as good and bad guests are found at the party (see verse 10 above). It's not up to us (ahead of time) to determine what/who the "good" is and what/who the "bad" is. Extend the invitation, period.

End of tirade. Thanks for letting me vent....

Rick in Canada, eh?


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 10:19:16

Comment

Right on, Rick in Canada! Great alternative view of the lesson!

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 11:29:35

Comment

Hi everybody!

A final thought, probably too late to help anyone else. Since I usually preach about everybody being invited, the good, the bad, probably more like the telling in Luke, I found myself looking for another reading.

So, of course I'm thinking about the wedding garment. I'll begin by talking about common nightmares, including the one where you sit down to take a test and realize you're unprepared. You haven't read the book. You didn't think it was important. Then I'll talk about the dream where you're going into a party and suddenly realize you're naked. Then without further comment move into the discussion of the parable(s).

This time, I'm hoping we'll hear the parable speaking to us personally about our preparation or lack of it. Do we take God's invitation seriously? Have we made whatever commitments we must to enter into the kingdom? Yes God calls us all, but we have some responsibilities here. However, in case you're worried that I'm saying that we have to earn our salvation... remember "I've got a robe, you've got a robe, all God's children got a robe." It is up to us to decide whether or not we'll put it on.

Or we might just show up naked.

Pam in San Bernardino


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 11:54:38

Comment

Probably no one will see this but here is what I'm toying with ....

Exodus 32: the sin of the golden calf... one of the punishments for event was the decree that that sinful generation of the Hebrews would not make it into the Holy Land. The rabbis teach that every year of their forty years in the desert, on the night before ninth of the month of Av (the supposed anniversary of the golden calf event), Moses would cry "Let everyone go out and dig!" and all of the men would go out to the fields and dig their own graves, and then lay down and sleep in them. In the morning, Moses would cry "Rise and seperate yourselves from those who have gone to eternal life." Each year, they rose and found that 15,000 of their number were dead. But in the fortieth year, when only 15,000 were left, when they did this, they all rose in the morning; they were all still alive. Of course, they thought they had miscounted the days, and so they did exactly the same thing every night until the 15th of Av, when they saw the moon was full. And then they said "It appears that God has repealed the harsh punishment against us." So the 15th of Av ("Tu B'Av") became a holiday for the Israelites.

Now the tie in with this Gospel ... The Tractate Ta'anit (part of the Mishnah) says of Tu B'Av, that on this day "daughters of Jerusalem would go out dressed in borrowed white clothing [so that they would all look the same and not embarrass those who didn't have nice clothing to wear]. And the daughters of Jerusalem would go out and dance in the vineyards located on the outskirts of the city. [And all the young men who were not married would go there and watch]." Intertribal marriages would thus be contracted on Tu B'Av.

So here we have a tradition based on God's forgiveness of the most serious of the sins of God's people, their turning away from God to the worship of the Golden Calf, in which "wedding garments" of white are warn, making all the marriageable maidens equal in the eyes of their potential grooms. And we have the story from the Gospel in which all are invited to wear "wedding garments" which would make the wedding guests "equal" in the eyes of their host. And we have the Pauline tradition of the church as the bride of Christ and of the members of the church clothes in "festal garments" of forgiveness making them equal in the eyes of the Bridegroom.

And somehow this all ties together ... but I have to work on it some more.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 12:56:20

Comment

I was studying all week and thought I was going to preach this one way, and got another just now... The Banquet, the buffet, who wouldn't like to be at a party??? they are fun... But the people blow off the king...not important I'd rather wash my hair sort of thing??? ( to borrow that herbal essense commercial, she found something better, YES YES YES !!!) LOL Silly spell... But, is it really better... None found worthy so all invited...gentiles grafted in... the destruction as to 70 AD and tribulation later to come??? BUt here is one who slips in for awhile a gate crasher, party crasher, now I think back to college days, crashing a party... sometimes you slip in if everyone there is drunk...but at a party where celebration has full feculties...hmmm get caught and out you go.... Obvious connection with one who has not accepted Jesus as way... which I think we should mention first that is the Churches Priority! But this message speaks to the Church member, the pew warmer, the dead church, always have your oil ready...trimmed wicks... and you dont bring the clothes with you they are provided... <p> <p> This point ties with Phill. passage, Paul was imprisoned, but hat good attitude, right attitude Joy for the Journrey... <p> <p> Think about this: What kind of prisoners what our Church today produce????? Title of Sermon Are you called or Chosen.... Pastor Mary in OHIO


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 13:43:32

Comment

revwaf in Coconut Grove,

You may not see this, now that the sun is setting in the east. I, too, am working on a stewardshp sermon.

I begin by talking about the two groups that received the invitation to come to the feast.

The first group refused because they were riveted to their own lives and priorities, they were afraid to respond and place their control in someone else hands.

The second group, knew their need and hungered for acceptance, and responded, BUT there was one who entered the banquet hall without a wedding garment.- and because he could not explain why he was so unprepared for the invitation he was thrown into outer darkness.

What is going on - it seems so unfair - my goodness he didn't have time to purchase a garment!

1) We cannot come into the presence of God without expecting to be changed. Where was this person's awe, wonder, and gratitude?

2) Indeed, the true garments ar not worn on the body but on our hearts. We are talking about an inward transformation as we respond to God's invitation.

As men and women of faith, as a people continually invited into the presence of God - our lives must ring out with thanksgiving and gratitude for the gifts of communion that our Lrod has called us into.

As we approach the time for our ingathering of pledges for the next year to do God's ministry and mission in this place, you will hear alot about percentage or proportionate giving, and even the tithe ....

but hat i want to tell you now is that if your giving/pledge is not a reflection of your love for God, is not an openness in your life, your pledge will mean absolutely nothing, and you will do yourself a disservice if you pledge at all!

God seeks those who recognize thier own vulnerablility and frailty in this lif - those who know that their only true definition is in relationship with our Lord and Savior.

May we not hesitate, may we not find excuses, may we recognize our true selves - by responding with all we have to the love and presence of our God and King in our midst.

Come, eat, the feast has been prepared for you!

tom in ga


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 16:32:14

Comment

I know this is really really late, but I was just thinking about the person's response to the King. He was speachless when asked about what he was wearing. There seems to be something important about this. If clothes are significant to what is on the heart...is his inability to speak pointing to his unrighteousness? Help me out!

NR in IL


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 17:58:00

Comment

NR in IL I was looking at this part of the parable as well. This may be the shortest, yet strongest point of this parable - "Friend, how did you get in here without a robe?" Being speechless may mean that this guest did not recognize that he or she was only there because of the grace of the King. Obviously, the parable doesn't say but perhaps there were many last minute, poor, grateful guests without robes. The "right" answer to the king's question is something like "because, Oh gracious King, I humbly accepted your gracious invitation to be treated as a member of your family inspite of my lowly state. I am but a grateful recipient of your kind and generous grace" In other words, You don't enter the King's presence at the banquet because you were adequately clothed and prepared. You enter the banquet because you know and trust the goodness and faithfulness of the King - better yet - you trust he King because you know the King's Son.

Kind of half-baked but hey, this is the desperate preachers, right? Bearded Wonder in WA


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 18:21:24

Comment

To all of those who begin their late entries with "I know this is too late." It is never too late...I know 'cause I wrote this after you. God Bless your pulpits this week, and your congregations through them. RevIsrael


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 18:24:23

Comment

When we have a thanksgiving dinner this weekend, I won't have to be told twice to come to dinner. I wonder if all we have to do in a sermon is describe how good is the banquet. When we know how good it is, we won't need threats or prods to come, we'll come running. Brent in Pincher


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 19:10:58

Comment

Well... my sermon is done and it's not even midnight! Wow!

To read it, go to our parish website at

http://www.stfrancis-ks.org/

follow the navigation link to "Beliefs & Sermons" and you'll find a link to "This Sunday's Sermon" -- and there it is. Title: "No Excuses!"

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 19:33:06

Comment

Eric, Where is it, do I need Internet Explorer to read it? I can't find it?

DESPERATE,

pulpitt in ND or pulpitt@702com.net


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 19:36:27

Comment

I can't find it either Eric. Brent in Pincher


Date: 12 Oct 2002
Time: 19:42:23

Comment

pulpitt and brent...

on our site, see where it says <<SITE NAVIGATION?

move your curser to the left edge at that point and a slide-out nav-bar will appear ... in that box that slides out, click on "Beliefs & Sermons" and then, in the text that appears in the main window, click on "This Sunday's Sermon"

or just click on this link

http://www.stfrancis-ks.org/subpages/asermons/proper23-a-rcl-2002.htm

Blessings, Eric in KS