Veres 21-28 certainly offer a twist to the phrase "what would Jesus do" ...eh? The Good News on a tight schedule? A foreigner's test? Or dare we say ... changing the mind of Christ - gasp! Mercy - maybe we're all catching crumbs...or...are we the ones with the bread?
Shema65
The old (1928) Book of Common Prayer included "The Prayer of Humble Access" which was said right before going up for communion: "We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord whose property is always to have mercy. Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ and to drink his blood, that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. AMEN"
Hmm... we are not worthy to gather up crumbs under the table a woman as a dog under the table, ....where's this going? She gets what she wants. The ever-merciful God had to be pushed pretty hard here, seems more like he caved in than was compassionate.
Good thing there's some time left to think about this one!
Sara in GR,MI
Jesus' teaching about dietary rules and regulations would have been revolutionary in its time ( it certainly upset the Pharisees ! ) but perhaps to congregations today, it loses much of its force, and perhaps we need to look at a wider issue - ie the extent to which we are influenced by our environment.
I do not think that Jesus is saying that external influences have no effect on our behaviour. But in the final analysis, we have a choice ; we can control the way we react to them.
It is largely our basic ' inner self ' that determines the way we behave ( Matt 7, 17/18 and James 1.14 ) and it is here that all the problems originate ( Matt 15 - 19 - note similarity with the second part of the Ten Commandments )
The good news is that God is able to give us a sort of ' heart transplant ' by removing this selfish innaer nature, which is always dragging us down, and replacing it with a new nature in tine with God - a change so fundamental it is referred to in John 3.3. as a new birth - see also Ez 36.26. Romans 6.4 and Gal 2.18.
Mike, North Wales, UK
The Plight of Generic Caring There are numerous ways we could go with with text. Yet what strikes me today is the disciples. They want to send the lady away. No one, including the disciples would knowingly send people away, or want to be considered cold, --yet our Lord clears our vision of their actions. And so how do we treat the check out clerk at the grocery store, or the Mc Donalds' person who skips past us and takes our order last? --things in our everyday life? How do we treat the visitors on Sunday, when we are on the way to the donuts and coffee? --Do we invite visitors along? Do we insist they come with us to Bible Class?--or do we just skip the whole thing and head for the side door before communion?
Yes, we may have a case of gerneric caring. We may talk it right, but do we walk it? Generic caring is sin! It's a sin against the Second greatest command, "To Love our neighbors as ourselves", and the Great commission.
While the lady learns about faith and healing, we and the disciples are learning two things; 1)about intensional, deliberate, caring, and 2)our need for forgiveness. The grace and forgiveness come in as we see forgiveness connected to the healing. Christ freely offers it to all, even the lady who desires the crumbs from the master, and is given abundance, -the healing of her son. In that sense we have a kinship with the lady and her son.
RevRon
This passage has always been a difficult one for me. I don't think that Jesus was testing her faith, or even refusing to help her. I think this was the point where Jesus was opening up his ministry to the Gentiles and he was teaching the disciples that his mission included all people. This will be the main point of my sermon - the idea of salvation available to all of us, not just one segment of the population.
Thanks to all of you for your VERY helpful comments in the past. They've been a great help to me as I begin my ministry.
Nancy in PA
The Canaanite woman wasn't just someone who interrupted Jesus' busy schedule. Not just a non-Jew; She was a vile CANAANITE. The Jew's sworn enemy. If Jesus' responded to her request, <I>would His own people listen to him?</I> Are there folks today whom we say are not part of the people of God? Whom we exclude from the blessings and healing of God? For whom it is not "practical" for us to minister? Whom, as the disciples wished, we want to send away to live with their demons? Crystal (certified lay speaker, UMC)
15:22-28
Ah, is it possible that Jesus is influenced by the Canannite woman, is it possible that he is able to answer the prayers of even pagans. This woman has an important place in salvific history as she turns Jesus from simply focusing on Israel in order to behold the non-Jewish world. A Jesus who is this close to us, who is influenced by our beseeching is a Savior of all.
tom in ga
15:10-21 ON DEFILEMENT:
Jesus reverses the laws regarding defilement - it is not what goes into us, but what comes out that defiles. What we bare within is dumped into the lives of others. It is hard to repress the feelings of anger, resentment, lust, and rage - they will find was of manifesting themselves and bring dis-ease upon all. We must know ourselves well enough to understand what is within and seeking in our spiritual life a new inner life filled with the Shema.
The connection to the later verse has to do (I think) with wether or not we will judge this woman or wheter we will see within her the marks of faith moving toward her savior. What do we think about non-Christians, about those not belonging to our fold, etc?
tom in ga
Simply to note that this day, August 15th, is remembered in the Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican, and Lutheran Communions as a special feast of Our Lady. What role does she play in universalizing the faith, of reaching out with compassion to those who do not belong to her Son?
tom in ga
I've been reading for a while now, and am finally venturing in to write. You folks have helped much in the past with ideas and challenges for sermons. This week is our church anniversary, and I've been thinking about using these passages, talking about our changing idea of ministry, any ideas? Olivia, CA
Sorry to intrude, but am looking for comments on the Concordat/CCM on the discussion site. Please let me have yours
Ron in IN
Perhaps even Jesus could have a bad day ...
Certainly offers hope to the rest of us.
Shalom,
Nail-Bender in NC
What made Jesus respond to the woman with such harsh words? Racism? Prejudice? Being Hispanic, these words sting. Yet, in spite of being called a dog she clings to her faith that Jesus can heal her daughter. She put everything aside, her pride, and even dignity to fall at the feet of this Jew. What about the crumbs of faith from the table of this woman. This humblenss touched the heart of the one who "humbled Himself". Who in our community still clings to this type of faith in spite of ridicule and rejection? How can we get some crumbs? Ed in Dall
The woman called Jesus 'Lord.' As a Canaanite, it would have been blasphemy against her own religion to acknowledged Jesus as worthy of such a title. He was a member of the historic group that had subjugated her own people. I recall a theology professor noting that her address to Jesus was the most dramatic detail of the story. She dared to speak in new ways, to consider new kinds of faith expression. At the very least, you have to love her nerve and her wit. Joe in Zion
Our Lord's response to the Canaanite woman seems to evolve out of a new recognition on his part that his ministry may not be just to the Jewish people but also to the non-Jewish world. Isn't the first time that Jesus is to reach out to a non-Jew as recorded in Matthew. Certainly he was beginning to recognize that the Jewish world was not going to accept him. I am toying with a sermon related to what happens to us when "One door shuts" and how other doors open to us. I think this also ties into the story of Joseph in the lesson from the Hebrew Scriptures. Certainly Joseph experienced the reality of newly opening doors as he rises to prominence in Egypt. Just an idea and it is only Monday after all. Rev. Bob
I'm not sure that the address "lord" is as theological as the professor claimed. In Greek, it is "Kyrie," which roughly translates both "lord" and "sir".
For the sermon, I am responding this week to three youth who have just returned from a work trip on the Sioux Reservation in Pine Ridge, South Dakota. It seems to me the notion that can kill the gospel is our tendency strongly to link Christianity to culture. Maybe to understand this we need to be reminded that we Gentiles are dogs (we were dirt not that long ago, so we're moving up).
SS Vicar
I have been thinking all afternoon about the Canaanite woman, especially in relation to last week's passage of Peter walking on the water. What is interesting to me is how Peter's walk was precipitated by "fear," i.e. fear of the masses, fear of the storm and fear of the "ghost."
The Canaanite woman's motivation was out of "love," love for her infirmed daughter. Jesus' apparent ignoring of her, the disciples telling Jesus to send her away, Jesus refusal to help initially because His mission was 'to the lost sheep of Israel" all appear to me to be "storms", sources that could distract the woman from her mission.
But unlike Peter, who took his eyes off the goal (Jesus), this woman continues to keep her eyes on the goal (deliverance of her daughter by Jesus). She did not waver in her faith walk and so she achieved the "miraculous."
Well, what do you think?
I have been thinking all afternoon about the Canaanite woman, especially in relation to last week's passage of Peter walking on the water. What is interesting to me is how Peter's walk was precipitated by "fear," i.e. fear of the masses, fear of the storm and fear of the "ghost."
The Canaanite woman's motivation was out of "love," love for her infirmed daughter. Jesus' apparent ignoring of her, the disciples telling Jesus to send her away, Jesus refusal to help initially because His mission was 'to the lost sheep of Israel" all appear to me to be "storms", sources that could distract the woman from her mission.
But unlike Peter, who took his eyes off the goal (Jesus), this woman continues to keep her eyes on the goal (deliverance of her daughter by Jesus). She did not waver in her faith walk and so she achieved the "miraculous."
Well, what do you think?
Sorry, this is the first time I've added my own thoughts and of course, I ended up entering them twice and not even signing my entry! Sorry. My name is Jude from Washington State.
I have not been here for some time but this week's passage drove me to "desperation". After reading the comments, a new thought came to me regarding the Canaanite woman. Perhaps the transition was not so much Jesus' as her. I think of the tribe of Israel as the followers of the true God. This would make the Canaanites to be those who reject God. Perhaps in her initial approach she saw Jesus as a mighty man like David and one who might do a trick for her not out of respect for the God that sent Jesus. Hence Jesus replies he is not here to do tricks. He has come to feed those who want to know God in new ways. She kneels and asks Jesus to help her and is willing to accept scraps from the master. Jesus recognises her faith and trust in him as one sent by God and her Godly love for her child and gives her what she desires. The connection to us is that we must not come asking God to intervene in our behalf until we have come to a true acceptance of who Jesus is and who God is. So many say that they have cried out to God and received nothing and perhaps the answer is here in terms of the relationship they have with God before they amd their demands.
I would like to know if this resonates with anyone else. Bob,Interim Pastor Leader, Mich.
Personal to Peter Oliver-
My e-mail to you has been returned every time. Happy to help out on your visit here, but I will be gone for 2 weeks. Call in the next 24 hours & we'll talk. US: (808) 938-8093 (cellular). HW in HI
Sorry for the inrude folks....
This is the first time I have ever posted and I would really like to thank everyone for your contribuations, I have found them very helpful. I thank God for you!
I found an interesting twist on Jesus and the Canaanite woman dialouge in Max Lucado's book "In The Eye of the Storm" in the chapter "Why God Smiles".
First, Lucado suggests that we consider Jesus with a sense of humor. Jesus who wasn't afraid to laugh and enjoy life.
Then we consider that this Canaanite woman impressed God with her faith, something that the disciples hadn't done. This woman asked Jesus to what He came into the world to do. Give gifts to unworthy children, us.
Lucado asks us "Could it be that Jesus' tongue is poking his cheek? Could it be that he and the woman are engaging in satirical banter? Is it wry exchange in which God's unlimited grace is being highlighted? Could Jesus be so delighted to have found one who is not bartering with a religious system or proud of a heritage that he can't resist a bit a satire? He knows he can heal her daughter. He knows her heart is good. So he decides to engage in a humorous moment with a faithful woman."
I have a very difficult time thinking of Jesus as referring to anyone as a dog. I wonder if Jesus and the woman could be bantering back and forth. Joking, teasing, and enjoying each other for who they were, an inside joke that they both could appreciate.
Jesus answered her "Woman, great is you faith!"
MH in IL
Brothers and Sisters,
I wish I had time to share in all the dialogue on this text. I preached it in a class last spring, and spent a month on the exegesis!
But my family is moving, and I have much to do.
I posted the final sermon in the sermon review. I invite you to take a look.
ST
I am up early enjoying all of your contributions. I am amazed at the faith displayed here, as that of the woman. Today is abid day in my life. I am delivering my letter of request for retirement and hope to have it accomplished in a few months. I want to be in ministry for the fulfillment it brings not for the monetary reward. Thaks to all of you for being there. I will continue to read these posting even when I am not preaching regularly. I have come to use this as devotinal time. Doug in Utah
Hey Jude, I think you have an important understanding... it rings truth in my heart... that the women is walking straight through the storms to the Lord and to hope and healing for her daughter. It is interesting to me that Jesus' comments about what comes out of a person's mouth, rather than what goes into it, preceeds this interaction. Throwing the children's bread to DOGS? I can explain it in ways that mitigate the harshness (as others have done) but I can't read it without feeling hit in the stomache. "Gut reactions" to Scripture seem to lead to truth. My guts say the wording to the woman was hard and humiliating, but she held fast. She continued to come closer to Christ and received healing for her daughter and showed that the "lost sheep" could be found in any community. Remember in verse 12, the Pharisees "took offense" that Jesus' words implied they had missed God's point. Immediately after, Christ demonstrates through an unlikely person of faith that humility which stays on course (seeking God even when one is "offended") is essential in one's walk of faith. We are not healed by our own pride and "correctness" but by the love of God. DL in ME
Thanks for all your contributions. I am amazed at the faith displayed here, as we all are at the faith fo the woman. Today is a big day for me, delivering my request for retirement. I look forward to doing ministry without pay, and to reduced stress. I will continue to read these postings every week as a devotinal that I have come to appreciate. Thanks for being there. Doug in Utah
Good morning, all! Bob i nMich: YES! This does resonate with me! you wrote "The connection to us is that we must not come asking God to intervene in our behalf until we have come to a true acceptance of who Jesus is and who God is. So many say that they have cried out to God and received nothing and perhaps the answer is here in terms of the relationship they have with God before they made their demands."
This makes sense to me. I will spend some more time thinking/praying about it, and about other comments made here, and if I come up with anything profound, I'll share!
Janet in NY
ST's sermon contribution is VERY helpful. I am thankful for the opportunity to read it. It combines reason, heart and healthy listening. DL in ME
Doug in Utah,
I'm one who believes that ministry is never done without pay. Our reward will surely come (Matt 16:27; Eph 6:7-8).
Happy retirement!
Rick in Va
ST's sermon contribution is very helpful..if you haven't read it, take a few minutes and do that. ST: May I use part of your sermon? How do you prefer that I give credit? (if you choose not to post your name, you may email me at janet@clergy.net) Thanks! Janet in NY
ST's sermon contribution is very helpful..if you haven't read it, take a few minutes and do that. ST: May I use part of your sermon? How do you prefer that I give credit? (if you choose not to post your name, you may email me at janet@clergy.net) Thanks! Janet in NY
Correction to my earlier post: the woman's identification of Jesus as the Messiah is unusual, calling him "Son of David." This, not the use of "lord", is significant. Apologies.
Gleaning from ST's sermon, I see three attempts by the woman to justify herself: 1) Proclamation, 2) Begging, 3) Humiliation. The first two didn't work. The third, as she claims the "dog" label that has been put upon her, opens the door to healing. We need to admit that we are dogs, but the crumbs are limitless.
SS Vicar
Hey all --
I've been spending a little time crawling around in this text this morning. It's a wonderful passage to work with . . . I've decided to call my sermon "Hounding Jesus" . . . :-)
Dave K. in Ohio
"Preach the Gospel to all the world and when necessary use words." -- Francis
SS Vicar,
I couldn't agree with you more. However claiming the "dog" label goes against the grain of the self-esteem movement so widely taught in our own pulpits, that allows us to be 'shocked' at Jesus' initial rebuke of the Canaanite woman.
Martin Luther wrote: "You [We] are all of no account, whether you be manifest sinners or saints [in your own opinion]; you all must become different and do otherwise than you now are and are doing [no matter what sort of people you are], whether you are as great, wise, powerful, and holy as you may. Here no one is [righteous, holy], godly, etc."
In this week's passage we have one of Christ's 'hard' sayings, hard because it goes against the caricature that many today have made of Christ, defanging the Divine, separating justice from His love (as if we were able to do so).
I look forward to hearing how many will handle this passage. The easier thing to do is to dismiss it outright as something that Christ never said, or diminish it as some twisted use of Divine humor. The harder is to preach it as written, and understand that yes, we need to come to Christ as "dogs", needing healing and the licking of wounds, wounds brought about by our sinful condition, wounds that only Christ can heal us from.
God's blessings on all and please, preach the Word, prayerfully and powerfully!
Rick in Va
Hello everyone,
I think that this is only a difficult passage if one believes that Jesus was perfect and never had to learn anything from anyone else, especially a woman. I love this passage because it is perhaps the only passage in the Gospel (correct me if I'm wrong) where Jesus actually learns something once he begins his ministry. I strongly value life long learning and think that any ministry that is a good one is one where people are willing to learn from one another. Jesus was wrong for treating the woman this way. He was influenced by his culture where Jews did not respect Canaanites. She had the courage and faith to challenge him and his disciples on that. She was right and he finally admits that. Hey, for that woman's words! Amen!
Kelly in Alberta
as i read your comments and search the scriptures, i notice outside my window that birds are gathering seeds on the ground below the feeder i hung for them. gathering crumbs below the table...
KG in GA
It seems to me that after talking about where uncleanness comes from (the heart not the exterior)Matthew is giving us, in the Caananite woman, an example of "cleanness" in one who is apparently unclean. She is an example of humility before the Lord, extreme at that, and this is her (her daughter's) healing. Anyway, comparing her with the Pharisees and disciples is where I'm going with this text, using clean/unclean categories.
While we don't use those terms often, I think we act as though some folks are clean/unclean. So I'm looking for real-life illustrations. Have you had experiences in your church or life of someone being excluded because of externalities like hair, race, age, economic class, etc?
Thanks for all the postings and musings. This site is very helpful!
Pastor Earl
I wonder if dogs isn't quite as derogatory as we might think, after all it is posted opposite the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And according to the previous text, the "lost sheep" are more concerned about clean hands than they are clean hearts. We are all dogs who can only humbly beg for mercy. I like "The Prayer of Humble Access" and think that is the direction I will go in this weeks sermon. MRN in NM
The term dogs (or in this case, literally "little/worthless dogs") was used by Jews to refer derogatorily to non-Jews (see Philippians 3:2, Revelation 22:15). The word for dog is usually "kuon," but in this case "kunarion" is used, adding the meaning of little/worthless.
I, too, am intrigued/confused by the tendency to place sin in opposition to self-esteem. I find the notion of Total Depravity, that I am a worthless dog, paradoxically freeing. I can't save the world, I can't walk on water, but I don't have to - that's Christ's job, and he did it once in all sufficiency. And so I continually stand (grovel?) in need of those crumbs which nourish my soul.
The clean/unclean distinction became clearest for me in a previous parish where the Senior Pastor thought he knew who were the sheep and who were the goats (dogs?). The "sheep" were given positions of power, and the others were irredeemable (for some past sin against pastor or institution) and labeled as "dysfunctional." Not sure it works as an illustration, but it strikes me as hitting deeper than "There was a guy who smelled funny, but it turned out he was a millionaire, so we learned our lesson." (a nice civility lesson, but not much gospel) We - and I'm going to keep saying it - are dogs. We cannot decide who's clean and unclean, but it's not our decision to make anyway! Praise God!
SS Vicar
First a question of help when it comes to the Greek word used here for dogs. I read in one commentary that the word here "kynarion" means domesticated dogs, which the Jewish people would not have had, versus the one that is used earlier in Matthew "kyon" which meant the wild kind. Not having gotten to Greek yet, I rely on what I read,and one poster here said the world "kynarion" refered to little- does this exclude the meaning I have, or does it mean both? Now my thoughts on this. I, like many in this passage, have been struck by Jesus' harshness in this passage. I would like to explain it way as Jesus and the woman engaging in some sort of secret inside joke, but that makes it seem even worse. After all the women's daughter is dying, and here the two of them are matching wits in some sort of can you top this? Then I am struck by the concept of Jesus learning through this process; and again my initial reaction is to recoil. After all, Jesus is Christ, divine, and thus should know all. Jesus cann't be wrong or corrected. But that doesn't take in account that Jesus is full human also. So if Jesus is fully human, when as a human did he stop needing to learn? Or are we looking at the wrong focus here with focusing on Jesus' actions? Is the main point according to the author of Matthew to focus on the woman, or to focus on what this means. That is the expanding of this message and ministry beyond the house of Israel to the Gentiles. Notice here that Jeses is going against what he told his disciples to do, he has entered Gentile territory So what was Jesus doing here? Was it some sort of test? These are just musings now, I am still working on where I want to head with this weeks sermon on this. But as this bounces off the reading from Romans, I have to think there is some connection to who we think belongs or is saved. Debbie in Bangor
I was reminded by my colleauge of the words of the "King", "you ain't nothing but a hound dog!" Sinbad, Goose Creek, SC
I was reminded by my colleague of the words of the "King", "you ain't nothing but a hound dog!
Sinbad Goose Creek, SC
This weekend is the Orange County Gay Pride Weekend, and representives from our diocese will once again have the chance to preach the gospel to a whole congregation of "Canaanite Women" a the street Eucharist held before the parade on Sunday.Gathered in the street will be those who have been told by the church that they are not fit for the food intended for the children ... less than dogs.
WWJD? "Great is your faith" I believe he says to these who gather seeking Him in spite of an institutional church that has rejected them. These are those who kneel before us -- sometimes in the dirt of the path in front of us -- and beg, "Lord, help me." Note that Jesus did not tell her to change -- "be healed" of who she was -- to stop being a Canaanite, and THEN he would consider her plea. It was HER FAITH that he responded to. May God bless those who come to us in faith -- and give us the grace to be the hands and feet, the embracing arms and voice of love our Lord and Savior to them. Susan in SanPedro
As I consider this text parents are gathering up their children after a shooting spree at a Jewish Center. Some children won't get to come home today. I am struck by the mind set that can shoot at children as if they were target practice or dogs needed to be put down. Will we hear the cries of the Jewish mothers for help and healing? Will we push them away - or (worse?) will we relegate them to our crumbs?? What defiles a person... Hillary in Ca
I'm struck, not with the cannaanite woman, but with the earlier part of this pericope. What defiles us is not what goes in, but what comes out. It was said earlier that we can't control what happens to us, we can only control how we react. It is not what happens in life that is under our control... often it is so far out of our control that we feel helpless and scared. All we can control is our reactions. Anger, fear, spite, revenge, or forgiveness, love, reconcilliation. The choice is ours. What defiles us is not what others do to us, but what we do to ourselves. How we hold on to the anger and bitterness and give it to God. I see i this a strong tie to the OT lesson and the stroy of Joseph who couldn't control the circumstances he had been put it, but chose instead to react with forgiveness and reconcilliation. I too am struggling with the feast of the Blessed Virgin on August 15. Was she not an example opf a woman much like the canaanite woman? The least likely to recieve God's greatest gift in Christ? She also chose to react to her circumstances, not with hesitancy or regret, but with trust and acceptance, even knowing that a sword would pierce her heart. "Be it done to me according to your word." Would that I were so brave!! In these days of blaming and victim pointing... I need to remind myslef that I can't help being a victim, but I can help remaining one! What defiles me most is often what I do to myself. Grace, Rob
Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came out and started shouting , "Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David"
She just called a few hours ago from the emergency room asking for a ride home. I will call her Maria. She was beaten badly by an another woman as she walked back home from the 7-eleven with her 5 years old son. The little kid was so happy because he had just turned five and was telling everybody. One of the Hispanic guys heard him and bought him a slurpee as a gift. The other woman was observing everything, she was the man lover and she got jealous. AS she beat Maria in the face many times with a bottle she acused her of trying to steal her man.
But he did not answer her at all...
No one did anything to help her, they were afraid they will get into trouble. The little kid was very scared. He began to walk home by himself because there was no one who will take care of him. He was afraid the women will hit him too.
"Send her away for she keeps shouting after us"...
She was sent to the hospital to be treated. Behind they left the gallon of milk for the 5 years old and the slurpee... the only gift he did received because his mother could not afford to celebrate or to give him anything.
He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"...
The woman was not a member of my congregation, she had never given tithe, she will probably never will. She was an illegal immigrant. She was a lost sheep but did not belong to Israel. Should I use my time as a pastor, paid my honorable members of the church in people like her?
But she came and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, help me."
As I approached the Emergency Room I saw her sitting outside. Her face was disfigured by the wounds. There were still traces of blood. She lost a few teeth and her fronthead was swelling with an enourmous bruise. When she saw me she began to cry: "I am sorry that I call you so late in the night but I did not knew who else to call. I do not have any other friends that I can trust." I put my arms around her and hug her with love. This woman was no longer a stranger, I felt she was know my sister.
"Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters table"
HOw do I handle the pain of my people? How can I be calm as I see my people eating crumbs while others eat comfortably in wonderful tables filled with food? Oh Lord, you know the deserve a lot more than crumbles...
"Woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish."
Lord have mercy on my people. Let them heal, let them be fed. Use me Oh Lord as an instrument to serve them and supply fot their needs every single day. Amen.
Latina
Could it be that what Jesus said to the woman is not as shocking as we make it out to be? Hear me out. In Jesus' day, I believe those who heard him speak this were not shocked, for this is how they probably would talk to her as well, IF they even took the time to talk to her. I am reminded of my internship in Texas, where the mind set was, "I am not prejudice, I like the African American. It is the Mexican I don't like!" That was the norm. When Jesus speaks, I believe he speaks "the norm" of the people around him. It shocks us now, for we are heavily sensitized to these things, politically correct, extra careful, walking on egg shells, "not that there's anything wrong with that." BUt it wasn't that long ago that we weren't so careful with our speech. Times have changed. It is the Canaanite woman who opens the eyes of the people to her position as a child of God as well, deserving more than a mere dog.
IT is early in the morning, forgive the babbles, but I hope they make sense!
Charlie in OH
Could it be that what Jesus said to the woman is not as shocking as we make it out to be? Hear me out. In Jesus' day, I believe those who heard him speak this were not shocked, for this is how they probably would talk to her as well, IF they even took the time to talk to her. I am reminded of my internship in Texas, where the mind set was, "I am not prejudice, I like the African American. It is the Mexican I don't like!" That was the norm. When Jesus speaks, I believe he speaks "the norm" of the people around him. It shocks us now, for we are heavily sensitized to these things, politically correct, extra careful, walking on egg shells, "not that there's anything wrong with that." BUt it wasn't that long ago that we weren't so careful with our speech. Times have changed. It is the Canaanite woman who opens the eyes of the people to her position as a child of God as well, deserving more than a mere dog.
IT is early in the morning, forgive the babbles, but I hope they make sense!
Charlie in OH
At this early point, I don't know what to think about Christ using the term that's translated 'dogs'. I am intrigued by the fact that the woman, in her response, seems to accept it. Interesting. STAN in TN
SS Vicar,
If you thought that I said humiliation was the means to healing and grace for this woman, I hope you will read my sermon again!
What I believe I said was that it was neither demanding nor groveling that gained a response from Jesus, but an open, honest attitude of dialogue and trust.
Respectfully, ST
P.S. Any of you who wish to excerpt from the sermon may do so with credits to ST, a friend from DPS.
Susan in san Pedro thanks for your contribution... helpful.. << It was HER FAITH that he responded to. May God bless those who come to us in faith -- and give us the grace to be the hands and feet, the embracing arms and voice of love our Lord and Savior to them.>>
note- Susan, I responded aug 1 to your inquiry on DPS Discussion Forum about Taize and it's music. I hope it helps.
don hoff, elmira, ny donaldhoff@aol.com
Susan in San Pedro,
I think definitions are in order since the language today can mean so many things. Who is the institutional church? How are they rejecting today's "Canaanite Women"?
If I understand you correctly, your definition of institutional church is any Christian body that holds to Scriptural definitions of sin and who believes that Christ calls us out of lives filled with willful sin. And rejection is defined as that which happens when one is taught or encouraged to sin no more.
Are my definitions close? You can answer on the discussion site if you'd like.
Rick in Va
I did not intend to misrepresent the sermon. I wanted to give credit for the idea of the woman making three very different approaches to Jesus, an idea which I borrowed from the sermon. The interpretations were mine, including humiliation (perhaps humility would have been a better word). Apologies for the confusion.
SS Vicar
Hello my cyber community, how I enjoy and benefit from the thoughts you offer. I have just returned from a week of canoeing in Ontario's beautiful Algonquin park and so my mind is still slow but willing. I like relate this text to what Marcus Borg offers with regard to Jesus as a wisdom teacher. The saying about dogs could be considered an aphorism. Borg suggests that Jesus used these provocative sayings to "lead the hearer to a new prception", "that they mean more than what they say and invite the hearers to see something they otherwise might not see". It would seem to me that if this is what happened here, the woman responds with a similar piece of wisdom. In this both Jesus and the woman receive the "invitation" to move beyond words (even if they are words of wisdom) to action. Deke of the North
The greatest challenge in ministry seems to be overcoming distraction. It is the spiritual discipline of being focused. Such focus presupposes an awareness of purpose or mission.
There were thousands of Canaanite women who may have had just as much need as this woman. Was Jesus being racist or sexist to have excluded them? Of course not. Even Jesus, with all his gifts had to focus on his missional purpose: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Jesus was focused and intentional. But the woman was persistant, a quality God just cant seem to resist, particularly when the persistance is faith based.
Coming from the former lost house of Israel, the now "New Israel" or Church, has great challenges to know what our mission is and to stay focused on it in the midst of a needy world. In Matthew the mission is making Disciples of all nations... That mission will serve more needs in the long run than a reactionary non proactive activity of helping the needy when they come.
Yet, still, there is that Cananite woman, a person, I can almost see her face and feel her desperation. Is she a distraction, or is she the mission, one of "the least of these?"
That seems to be the question, not only in this text, but also in everyday ministry. That is the question no matter how large your church, no matter what position you serve. That is the question for everyday life, for time management and life management, for leadership of administration and stewardship of gifts: Is this the mission or is it a distraction?
And the answer? Well, it all depends doesn't it. I wish I knew so I wouldnt have to keep asking it. I wish I could eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, so that I could have all the answers and not have to seek. I wish that understanding would do away with the need for faith.
But the truth is that I am no better off than a desperate shouting Cannanite woman. My best response is first to seek and ask. That was the difference between the woman and the Pharisees. The woman sought. The Pharisees eliminated from sight and conversation everything they did not understand making way for no need for faith.
Fred in LA
11 August 99
1145 hrs.
The word for "dog" is also the word "cynic" that comes down to us in English.
Just an aside.
I enjoy reading what you-all write! Keep it up.
Paul F. in Central Texas
Some thoughts/ideas on this passage:
1) I loved the imagry used earlier regarding the abundance at the table, that even the dogs might be fed. I used the terms sufficient and abundant in my sermons the past two weeks regarding the feeding of 5000+ and walking on water (Peter's little faith was sufficent, abundant because Christ multiplies our faith.
2) What do you think of Dallas A. Brauninger's discussion on this verse? Essentially he proposes that the woman was sent to minister to Jesus and remind him of his mission, much like Zarephath ministered to Elijah and reminded him of his mission.
3) In thinking about the woman accepting her position as a dog, the verse, "the first shall be last, and the last shall be first" comes to mind. Israel was to be the first reciepients of the gospel, but they rejected Christ, so now the last to recieve nurishment, the dogs underneath the table, will be first in line at the Kingdom of God. Perhaps when we begin to recognize that we are totally underserving of God's grace, then we are in a position to receive that very grace. JR in BigD
More good stuff this week, as usual. Starting with some of your thoughts I'm taking a different tack...thinking about Gen. 45 in relation to Matthew, as seen through the lens of (gad!--my psych background rears its head)) cognitive therapy and the humanity of Jesus. Jesus is our model, and he models "repentance" (a turning) for us here! It is--at least in part--a significant chosen and rational response to reality (as confronting him in the Caananite woman). In Genesis 45, Joseph also "repents" of very righteous, well-deserved anger vs. his kin, and models God-like forgiveness and grace (some commentators suggest this culmination of the Joseph cycle is an intentional metaphor for God and God's relationship to us).
My sermon will be called "Hearts and Minds", focusing on these texts, and the fullness of repentance and grace as sifted through the following stuff I found in "Prayers for a Planetary Pilgrim" by Fr. Ed Hayes (Forest of Peace Books, 1988). I relish the chance present Christian faith as more than a merely passive acceptance of grace...that, though it certainly is a gift of God, grace is something we can "do something with, in ourselves." We are not just passive recipients, but can take part, "working out our own salvation in fear and trembling." I also relish being able to contrast Jesus and Buddha, who sound remarkably similar here on the power of the human mind/soul. Hayes' book, by the way, is well worth a look...one of the most intriguing and useful prayer books I've seen in recent years.
[The following from "Prayers for a Planetary Pilgrim"]...
>> We are what we think. What we are is the result of our thoughts. With our thoughts we make our world. Speak or act with an impure mind and trouble will follow you as the wheel follows the ox that draws the cart. Speak or act with a pure mind and happiness will follow you as unshakable as your shadow. -- Buddha
PRAYER: How easily do I see myself, O gentle Divine Parent, as a victim of the evils of this world, a victim of the greed and injustice of others. Yet in the wisdom of your son Buddha I come to understand that it is I who create my world with my thoughts. I struggle to understand the mystery that my dark and negative thoughts weave about me a negative world of fear, evil and harm. Is it true that my seemingly harmless thoughts are magnets that draw darkness to me as surely as iron bits are attracted to a magnet? If so, then come and help me this day, O God, to strive to keep in my mind only pure, loving thoughts about others and life. Your son Jesus taught in many ways that evil thoughts breed evil deeds, so let me banish such thoughts from my mind and heart the moment that I become aware of their destructive presence. May I think only loving and kind thoughts toward others, even toward those who harm me, and so help create a compassionate world full of your glory and holiness, a world filled with happiness and joy. <<
--Barry in OH
SS Vicar,
Thanks for the clarification. I understand your point, and yes, the woman's humility is a very important factor, I believe. Thanks for your insight! :)
In Christ,
ST
I like the idea that it was this woman's task to minister to Jesus, i.e., to let him know the direction he was supposed to take.
Someone else brought up the Marian feast also falling this Sunday, and I am reminded of this poem, entitled "Cana," by Antoinette Voute Roeder; I read it in "Presence," the journal of Spiritual Director International. It shows Mary acting as a kind of spiritual director to Jesus:
He was dancing with the bride When he became aware of her, Unobrusive, at his side. They have no more wine, she said.
And the dance came to a halt As he looked into her face; Saw her eyes speak worlds of love, Cosmic beckoning in the deep space Of Creation.
Filigrees of fear, of wonder, Plucked like fingers at his heart. Lady (and it sounded like He was addressing royalty), It is not my time.
His gaze remaining locked with hers, He saw within the wet depth Of her Woman's tears, himself; Upwelling, surging, and emerging In a second birth.
Is it? was his whisper. And it hung between them, quivering. Then he caught her; strong embrace, And turned to seek his Father's face. Before opening the door to the beginning of his life; The outpouring of himself In this, the first of many signs.
Barbara in SW Missouri
Latina - May God continue to strengthen you and bless you. i can't remember where you are located, but you touch me so deeply. i cry for the women; I cry for the 5 year old; i cry for a world where people can not buy a small thing for a child without jealousy and hate and hurting. i think of my own children who have so much and of a store where we often stop - crowded, full of all kinds of people usually, and the owner often gives things to my children when he is working. he usually says it goes with buying a full tank of gas or something like that, but still it is a gift. and they love to go in there. i do not speak spanish and have never been very good at languages (i think i don't hear very well) but i would like to learn. i have done three weddings now where one person is hispanic and to be able to reach out to others in their language of their heart. i would like that.
please forgive me for rambling, i just am really trying to deal with Latina's story and jewish children - and adults being gunned down - and the hate. i can preach; i can pray in my small congregation. maybe if we all do....
Latina, i also used your story last week in my sermon. thank you.
i remember thinking beofre that Jesus is trying to get away from it all as he heads to Tyre. John has been killed, demands are upon him - maybe if he can get away and go somewhere where no one knows him for a bit. ( or was i reading too much of myself into his actions?) then a stranger to his religion comes up begging. maybe his silence reflects inner conflict - how to deal with this? and he draws his limits, but God really has other plans for him and he realizes that these are God's children too. i know this passage helped me take a first position out of seminary that i never would have dreamed of, but it was where God was wanting at the time. i learned so much.
but it does seem to conflict with God not looking on the outside, but on the heart, as the first part of this passage implies.
this is a passage to wrestle with. forgive me again for rambling. God bless all of you and my prayers are with you. rachel (in tenn/miss)
when i made my comments i had not read ST's sermon. ST - thanks for sharing. hat was great.
-rachel
Twenty-seven thousand. I make twenty-seven thousand dollars a year. A fortune. And most of the folks who come through this place don't even know from where their next meal may come. Twenty-seven thousand. It is embarrassing. I know I should give most of it back. I know God would have me give most of it back. But I tell myself that I really need it - no, that I really deserve it. After all, this is a huge mission. We do so many things. I'm responsible. And all in all, twenty-seven thousand dollars really isn't that much. So, I might give some of it, maybe even 10 percent, but the bulk stays safely tucked away in my pockets. Worse, what is really embarrassing is that we were willing, are willing, to pay thirty-one thousand dollars for someone to direct our housing ministry. As if God might be impressed with a few more dollars.
Yet, I have come to greatly appreciate dollars, for I know how difficult it can be when there are not enough of them. Enough for the mission and enough for all the folks who come through this place. Believe me, not having enough is a very frightening place to be. There is certainly a bounty of that around here … not enough, except heartbreak, hunger, and loss of soul. For poverty brings all of these things in abundance. Thus, I stay vigilant. I pray and I work and I proclaim and I hope. I call others to share out of their plenty. I call others to give. I seek to make every dollar matter. I seek to eliminate waste. I protect and I defend. That is my daily existence. That is my reality.
So, when I heard it, I became angry. How could anyone come to this place and do that?! How could anyone come to this place and steal?! Stealing from here was stealing from the poorest of the poor. Stealing from this thrift store was taking dollars away from one of the other ministries. Dollars for the elderly. Dollars for children crippled by illiteracy. Dollars for those who listened to the steady drip, drip, drip of rain-drops as the water slowly turned their rafters to powder. Drip, drip, drip, as one after another, their ceilings slowly, but most assuredly, collapsed around their broken down lives. Yet, my feelings didn't matter. There were the words of our receptionist. "I think she is putting the clothes up under her blouse."
It would not happen with me here. I would not allow it. In a booming voice so all could hear, I righteously exclaimed, "Who … who could take from the poorest? Who!?"
She had slipped around a corner into one of the other clothing rooms. I saw her sideways glance. I watched as she quickly darted from the hallway. The gig was up. "No more, no more," I said under my breath as I strode toward the place where she had been. "No more."
And then - there we were - face to face. I was so close that I could smell the cheap perfume over-powering my senses, making me take a step backward while I stifled a gag. Her face was cracked and lined, dry from too many years under the scorching sun of the tobacco field. A deep brown stain permeated the corners of her mouth, a mark from mouthfuls of the harvest. With a twinkle in her eye, as if she were a child up to some mischievous prank, she slowly smiled, spreading her lips to expose broken, green teeth.
I meant to say something. I had intended to say something. But as we stood there, her breath in my face and mine in hers, no words would come. In the silence, and in the breathing, I heard the whisper, small and soft. "I am the one who is blessed, you know. Jesus said it. This was never yours…I am the one who is blessed."
Twenty-seven thousand dollars and even the dogs get the crumbs.
Great is your faith my sister. Great enough for you and maybe, just maybe, great enough for me.
Shalom my friends, Nail-Bender in NC
Rachel
Thanks very much for your comments about my story. I know you are concerned about them. The woman is doing better. I provided food for the rest of the week and I will be visiting tomorrow again to bring a gift for the 5 years old. I am glad this story had touched as the experience touched my heart. You had encouraged me to share without fear. Thanks my sister. If you want to know a little more about my ministry you can see http://expage.com/page/graceministries I plan to incorporate some others stories to it.
Latina, VA
Thank you all for getting the juices flowing on what was at first read a thorny and confusing passage. As I see it, where to go with the sermon depends (as it often does) on where you "place yourself" in the story. With the disciples? Embarrassed, wanting to avoid confrontation, wishing this stranger so different from them would just go away, or that Jesus would keep moving so they don't have to deal with it? With Jesus? In the silence pondering, as has been mentioned, whether this is the "mission" or a "distraction". Or with the Canaanite woman - focused, persevering in the midst of a desparate situation, able to see something in Jesus that even the disciples at the time were missing? Personally I'm going with her, after all Jesus points to her as a model of faith. We also need always to be reminded of our dependence on grace - I'm titling the sermon "Going to the Dogs". And Deke I agree with you - it sounds to me like Jesus and the woman are speaking in aphorisms - the conversation has an almost zen-like quality - certainly like no conversation I have had. It dances on the edge of absurdity. What exactly does this exchange mean? The first question in the postings remains unanswered - who has the bread? Jesus? God? The Jews? The Disciples? Us?
-- Larry in KY
I Think a connection could be made between --It is what comes out of the mouth that defiles and Psalm 133.--" How very good and pleasant it is when kindred live together in unity!"
With all the seperatist groups, all the hate groups, all the defining of what is an acceptable lifestyle, maybe we are the Canaanite woman--waiting for some crumbs of unity, acceptance tio fall from the table of grace. Just some early morning thoughts.
John in PA
NailBender,
I'm usually very touched by your writing skills. And your last post is again a fine example of it.
However, I'm struggling to see where the woman in your writing expressed faith. Was it she that whispered? If so, is that the rationale we should all use when stealing seems a viable option?
Again, the gospel, the good news, is steeped in the expectation that we are to be holy as the Lord is holy. Something we cannot do on our own. Something we must do with the help of God's Holy Spirit. Something we must do in communion with other believers. Something we must do by obeying God's commandments.
If this woman's stealing was not rebuked in some gentle manner, are we not then going to encourage more of the same behavior?
Are the poor given license to steal simply because they are blessed by God?
I am confused by the theology, though usually blessed by your writing skills,
Rick in Va
In last week's lectionary passage, as Peter begins to sink, Jesus says he (Peter) has little faith. Peter,who walked on water (till distracted by the world), has little faith, but this woman is told that her faith is great.
I am not sure where I am going with this, but it is interesting that Peter's faith is compared unfavorably with this Canaanite woman's faith.
In last week's lectionary passage, as Peter begins to sink, Jesus says he (Peter) has little faith. Peter,who walked on water (till distracted by the world), has little faith, but this woman is told that her faith is great.
I am not sure where I am going with this, but it is interesting that Peter's faith is compared unfavorably with this Canaanite woman's faith.
Jerry in Ohio
My sermon title this week will be "Dog, Beggar, or Friend?" Her faith (inside) overcomes her position as "unclean" outside.... just as Jesus had told the Pharisees. I think Jesus used this opportunity as a vivid illustration to the disciples, and to us. I hope we have all learned from it.
Are any of you using the horrific events at the Jewish Community Center as part of this? (I am) Are we, as Christians, going to stand up and defend the children? I hope that we will make a point of supporting our Jewish brothers and sisters through this tragedy, and to prevent a repetition. To Jesus, ALL the children are precious! They are to me too!
Janet in NY
I have several ideas and possible illustrations circulating as I try to understand this passage.
1. Jesus’ final acceptance of the Canaanite woman, the first non-Jew comes immediately after the disciples finally get a clue about who Jesus was. He had walked on water (something only God can do), and it was the only pre-resurrection occurrence of them worshipping him (in Matthew’s account.) 2. The words seem harsh. The possibility that Jesus was succumbing to his human side and engaging in bigotry appalls me. 3. How does the teaching to the Pharisees about cleanliness relate to the woman? Was he taking the point even farther? Would Jesus abuse someone (even momentarily) to make a point?
I thank Bob from Michigan, it hit upon something which I hadn't thought about when he noted that the Canaanite woman may have been coming to Jesus as some sort of holy man like others in other religions. If she came to him expecting to get some sort of magic trick, he was rightly offended because that’s not what he was offering.
Yet isn’t that what the Pharisees were expecting? If they do the right rituals and say everything just so, then God’s magic can work for them.
I’m not exactly sure where this will take me yet. But, I have a feeling it will go in the direction of what it means to really be a disciple of Jesus – and hence God. In our churches, we have a tendency to focus all of our attention on the inconsequential rituals and "believing" the right way, with the right words. Sometimes, we as Christians and preachers have to speak a harsh word if we are going to be faithful. If Jesus would have healed the woman without making it clear that he took his ministry and mission seriously, she would have been mislead and expected nothing out of Israel’s God but magic tricks when all else fails.
I think of how in my previous career working with adults with mental retardation, how often people gave clothing to the residents of the group home. They washed their hands before eating; they gave to the needy. Yet at the same time half to three-quarters of the clothing had to be thrown out because it was so dated, torn, or dirty that it wouldn’t serve the ministry of helping these people to become all that God meant them to be. The actions fit their perceptions of giving to others on the surface. But who wants someone else’s dirty underwear? (And yes we got dirty underwear)
I don’t want it to sound like Jesus expected the woman to turn the woman’s faith and correct belief into a prerequisite for God’s grace. (It would be against my Weslyan understanding of prevenient grace) However, out of that grace, he couldn’t let her be deceived either. Her response that "Even the dog’s gather up the crumbs under their master’s table," could indicate that she realized now that this was serious business but still didn’t get the whole picture. Otherwise she would have been sitting at the table. Jesus didn’t toss crumbs and say "I’ll give her a few days reprieve before the demon has its way with her." He granted her wish in the midst of her still new and small understanding.
The Pharisees seemed to indicate that God expects us to understand everything before we can expect that grace. But Jesus shows that even in the beginning God works with us.
Do I need to speak to the "dogs" on Sunday? Do I have to be diplomatic in addressing in-church bickering about those who clap during spirituals or who shout "Amen" etc. during the sermon, while others sit on their hands and go about "proper" worship? I’m not yet sure but it’s got me thinking about what it means to be a Christian and it isn’t to be a please-all weinie.
I’m still not sure how this will all evolve before Sunday. I may even change my mind that morning. But I hope these meanderings can be helpful.
Two other possible illustrations:
I just adopted a dog from the local animal shelter. One of the warnings was to not change the dog’s diet or feed it table scraps because it can cause problems for the dog’s digestion. How can this fit? Some people need one thing, while others need another. Is the Church supposed to have one overall way of doing things? Or is it to be pluralistic in its approach?
Also, while in seminary, a friend told a story of how while he was serving as the pastor of a church, a dirty, poorly dressed transient man had come to worship two Sundays in a row. No one in the congregation talked to him either time. Yet on the second visit, the pastor had an opportunity during the handshake ritual to invite the man downstairs for coffee hour. He asked another man to take care of him while he changed out of his vestments before going down. When he got downstairs and looked for the man, a parishoner told him not to worry, he had gotten the man to leave.
Thank you all for all the ideas. This is the first time that I’ve contributed. I hope that my wandering thoughts haven’t been disruptive. And please forgive me for getting it all out at once.
Mark in Chicago
Mark in Chicago,
Thanks for contributing...
I enjoyed your post, especially the illustrations. Also the comments about being a please-all weanie.
No forgiveness is needed in my view for your "getting it all out at once". Please contribute again.
Rick in Va
Brother Rick,
I say this with what I hope is the purest intent, out of love and with no malice. My voice is not dripping with sarcasm or an accusing tone. I offer the following in peace.
I know it is difficult for you to understand that the woman was not stealing. From your words in the past, I know that you will have a great deal of difficulty in accepting the reality in which I seek to walk. I have come to this point through deep anguish of the soul and a transformation of life. It is a hard and painful journey, one that never ends, a journey where the heart stays broken. Yet, it is also a journey of hope and peace and assurance. Assurance that God does come and heal and hold. Assurance that God does reside in the world with us, incarnate, in the flesh, in our flesh - amidst the joy but especially in that place of brokeness, in that place of the little one. In saying that, I do not mean to suggest that "you have not arrived." Your words have touched the hearts of many and I see, hear, and rejoice in your passion for serving God. I only suggest that in my experience, I could not say the woman was not stealing without being created anew.
And though you and I have never met, though we have never shared face to face and though we know very little about the other's personal history, what I would garner from your many past words, is that I do believe I know some of the perspective from whence you speak. For there was a point in my life when your opinion was my opinion, when I too felt that faith needed to be protected, when I too felt that Christianity was besieged, when I too felt that the words of God's judgement had been lost. Brother Rick, I am not longer in that place. I have seen God in the least and God has convicted me and God has remolded me. And God has loved me. It is nothing that I have done but a miracle that God has worked.
So, it is from this new place that I ask, how was it that she was a thief? How can one steal that which God has already given? Our society teaches that the measure of one's life is tied to that which we possess. This message comes to us each and every day, hundreds of times a day. Billions are spent to ensure that we receive and embrace this message … and make no mistake, we do hear it, embrace it, and "buy into it" fully, completely. So when I suggest, and I fully believe that God is absolutely clear on this, that we truly own nothing, that all of our resources belong to God, and that when we wrap ourselves in plentitude while others go without, we are the ones who are stealing, I understand that is sounds foreign, dangerous, ridiculous, and out of step with reality. But it all depends on whose reality we embrace.
Rick, I have said this before on this forum but since you asked, I think it bears repeating. All of my life, I have been told that we must protect ourselves. In order to do this, we needed to be powerful and secure. As individuals in contemporary America, that means acquiring as much as possible, materially, financially, and even relationally. Once we acquire all of this stuff, then we need to fortify our position to make sure that we don't lose it and we must make it impossible for anyone to take it. So we build walls, buy alarms, and arm ourselves.
On a macro level, we do the same thing nationally. We seek economic power and then we build machines and train people to assure that there is no one else who can take our stuff. For as individuals and as a nation, if we lose our stuff, then we lose our lives. We do all of this, ultimately, because we believe that life in all its fullness, life as life which is blessed, is not lived out by the weak, the humble, the mournful - the dogs, if you will, but by the strong, the powerful, the proud. Therefore, we live a life which is not authentic, a life outside of the realm of the Kingdom, and thus, a life which is enmeshed in death. And the biggest lie of all, is that we need to protect this life by any means possible, even if it means that we kill to do it. When ultimately, in the killing of our enemy, it is we who sink deeper into this life of death, a living death which is the antithesis of life in Christ. In this living death, we only move further away from life in the Kingdom, separating ourselves from one another and separating ourselves from God.
For me, the saddest aspect of the lie is this: We revel in our death. We uphold it and even worship it. We choose death even in our churches, in choices like pew cushions instead of food for the hungry, in choices like trips to ski resorts, instead of a journeys to work on the homes of the poor, in choices where we refuse to meet the Christ because he so crowds our comfort zones. And then we name the death using terms like patriotism, honor, freedom, glory, family, friendship, love, etc. Our actions in the defense of, and in the pursuit of these concepts, then become corporately and personally palatable, even desirable. We remain separated from God, refusing the "fast which God chooses," refusing the dogs of our existence, never even realizing we are separated, never even realizing that in our pursuit of life, we jealously embrace and defend death.
The woman in our store, like the Cannanite woman in the story, only reminds us of God's justice, that God continually offers up God's option for the poor, that God continually calls us to life. A life not of this world but a life of the Kingdom, where the last are the first, where we give to all who beg, where blessed are the poor, where we meet Christ in the flesh embodied in the "least of these" and maybe even find him residing deep down in the depths of our own brokeness, our own little self.
You see my friend, she could not steal that which God had already given. Only we who hoard that which is not ours, do that. She only called me to understand and remember that we were standing in the realm of Kingdom, just as the Cannanite woman reminded Jesus, and that God's justice is justice that not only stands beyond societal norms, but is usually justice which is contradictory to societal norms. She only reminded me that indeed, God had provided me the eyes to see. I just had to open them.
Finally, in repeating the words of a friend, I offer this with the sure knowledge that "though I may be wrong, I am seldom in doubt (chuckle.)"
God's greatest shalom for you my friend,
Nail-Bender in NC
NailBender,
Thanks for responding (and quickly) and thanks for your words. Believe it or not my cyber-friend, there is much we agree on. I too am perplexed and saddenned when the church is viewed as a building, rather than a community bonded by the love of Christ. I am saddenned (and yes angered) when vestries and councils quibble over the color of carpets, the pitch of the roof, and the lighting in the vestibule while outside the structure there are hundreds, thousands and even millions who need to hear about the love and salvation given by Christ and better yet, see the fruit of that love and salvation. So in those respects, you and I are in complete agreement.
However, your reality and mine do begin to part when, as I understand it, you decide to do away with much of God's law and the practical application of the same. If, my cyber-friend, we lived in utopia, in the garden before Adam sinned, then you and I would be in complete agreement on these issues. Possessions would no longer be, for what I have is yours to have and what you have would be mine. But alas, the Earth is not utopia or the garden and won't be until Christ returns. So until that perfection arrives again, God's laws must be adhered to, and that I believe will also include the prohibition against theft. For if this not be the case, the exact opposite of utopia takes place. Chaos and anarchy.
We should strive towards the Perfect, and on that you and I will certainly agree. But until we arrive, then God's law and justice, as so clearly spelled out in the pages of Holy Scripture, ought to be taught and applied, with grace and mercy. It is a two edged sword that we must yield, but because of the presence of evil, it's a sword we cannot yet put down. It is Law and Gospel Nailbender, that needs to be proclaimed. For without the Law, as I read and understand the God-breathed pages of the Bible, the Gospel is no longer good news. And I might also add, social action, without the Law and the Gospel, is ultimately empty and inconsequential.
As I re-read your words, I also feel the need to respond to your thoughts concerning patriotism, honor, freedom, glory, etc. I believe we will part again here and your suggestion that you have 'arrived' by moving away from such terms made me pause and think. Recently, you wrote disapprovingly of those who were willing to die for country but not willing to die for Christ. Our problem (disagreement) may be couched in definitions. Patriotism, honor, freedom and glory were at one time in this country tied to that which glorified the Risen Christ. Dying for the freedom to worship Him, dying to defend that freedom were honorable and broght glory to God, as Scripture at least implies. We will agree (I assume) that these words no longer can be viewed in that context. Today the words have less to do with God and more to do with individuals. And I would argue that this has much to do with the effectiveness of liberal teachings on tolerance, pluralism, etc. But that we can discuss at another time.
My hope NailBender is that I can communicate one day as effectively as you are able. God has gifted you buddy with raw talent. But I also hope that you don't relish your arrival at a place where Law is diminished. I believe that somewhere along the journey, it is possible that you've made a wrong turn. Knowing that I also could be wrong but doubting the possibility, I am
Rick in Va
Excellent entries. Thanks to all of you. I am amazed by this woman's persistence. If I could be that persistent in my seeking, in my faith - ohh boy look out! She asks for crumbs and her daughter is healed. Not only that, but the blessing of the very Son of God telling her she has great faith! A little is better than none. But a little from God is far greater than anything this world or creation has to offer. Thanks be to God! I am reminded of what William Law said, “For God has made no promises of mercy to the slothful and negligent. His mercy is only offered to our frail and imperfect, but best endeavors, to practice all manners of righteousness.” My title is "A Little is Better than None." Would love some feedback before Sat. a.m. Thanks! Christ's Ambassador, Pastor Jonathan
Nail bender in NC and Rick in VA
Thank you both for the stirring dialogue - eloquent,passionate, and deeply respectful! May I suggest that the two of you might develop this correspondence into a wonderful Christian journal article? But I must confess, Rick, that as I read the Gospels, Jesus often seems to be surprisingly cavalier about laws and rules. This scripture seems to teach that people are more important than rules. If my children were hungry, and the only way I knew to feed them was to steal, I believe I would be sinning if I did not steal. God's law is ultimately to accept one another, to love for one another, and to care for one another, regardless of what the rules may say, which is exactly what Jesus did...and not for the first time...in his relationship with the Canaanite woman. The thing is, such a way of looking at life seems to our sinful minds to be chaotic and out of control. But, I think, part of the call of faith is the call to trust the heart of God as revealed in Jesus Christ rather than the orderliness of rules. and regulations. And I think that's what Jesus did. Steve in IN
One of the questions I will ask in my sermon is, "Who/what are your dogs?" In other words, what persons do you consider to be unworthy of hte grace of God. Pastor Earl asked for real life illustrations of persons who are treated as "dogs" in our churches. I can't help but think of the women who through the centuries lived within a church that refused to recognize all of the gifts that God had given them, and the women who continue to wait in denominations that refuse to ordain women. And, even the women clergy who are in "progressive" denominations who must constantly prove themselves in ways that male clergy do not. Are they, in faith, settling for crumbs under the talbe? People of color in the predominantly white churches of the U.S., people who have suffered in churches which have not always recognized their full humanity and even today do not treat these sisters and brothers as equals. Are they settling for crumbs under the table? What about gay and lesbian Christians who continue faithfully in churches which refuse them access to the sacramental rites (i.e., marriage and ordination)extended to other members. Are they settling for crumbs under the table? I ultimately can't think of this table without thinking of hte Lord's table. Who in our churches are we forcing to accept crumbs from under the Lord's table rather than welcoming as sisters and brothers? Bryan in New Jersey
Thank you Sara from Grand Rapids for the Prayer of Humble Access. We are using it for our confession this week at the Table. Like many of you, I am focusing upon the woman's persistence. She persists through the silence of Christ. Who hasn't known that silence for themselves? She persists through the "no" she recieved from Christ. She speaks again. In the end, her persistent prayer wins the day! I do not think this can be a formula for "getting what you want from God all the time." This story does, however, inspire us to pray again for a person or an issue we may have believed was beyond God's care and love. Faithful prayer is persistent prayer. Doug in Cincinnati
Dear Friends and Collegeages at DPS I am asking for your imput about my sermon this week. I have posted it on the sermon review site under this weeks gospel lesson. Its the first time that I have tried a straight narrative with this congregation, and only the second narrative I've ever done. So imput would be appreciateds. Also, please forgive the lack of formatting. For some reason the tabs and returns i put in here don't post. You can either post your imput or email me at DebRev2B@desperateprechers.com. Thanks in advance.
Debbie in Bangor ME
I haven't read all the postings, but I wanted to throw in my two cents worth before I got off. I'll read more of the postings later.
I'm convinced Jesus wasn't so much learning as he was convinced. I think Jesus had a plan all laid out and the woman was asking him to change his plan. Jesus said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." It seems that Jesus was saying that he is here for the Israelites first. After recruiting as many of the Jews as possible and then dying on the cross for us, then the Gentiles can be reached.
This is what the concept of the chosen people is all about. The concept of "the chosen people" did not mean only the Israelites will be saved. It was actually a responsibility. God would pour his blessing upon Israel and Israel was to be a blessing to the nations of the world. Jesus was not calling the people to just turn to God, but to also take on the responsibility of being God's people.
But the woman pointed out to Jesus that even the dogs get to eat crumbs under the table. I can understand this well because our dogs (we have two) are allowed to come into the kitchen. When we eat at the kitchen table, the dogs lay nearby, waiting. When one of us (especially my son) drops any crumbs (even tiny pieces, the dogs will get up and come over to sniff around. Many times they lick the floor to get all the crumbs. They are not allowed to beg at the table, but we don't say anything when they are eating the crumbs.
So I see Jesus realizing that he doesn't need to stick to his schedule as closely as he thought he needed to. Even as he is focusing on the people of Israel, he could surely drop a few blessings for a few Gentiles.
Before I sign off, keep in mind that Jesus didn't heal everyone. Remember the story about the weak man by the pool (forgot the name) who couldn't get himself into the water when the angel stirred the surface of the water. Jesus passed many people to come to this man. The Scripture did not tell us he healed any of them while helping the man.
Brandon in CA
Hey, First time contributer here. I think that the way that I am going with this here is on the issue of prayer. At first, the woman comes to Jesus asking a request from a "great man." She calls him "Son of David" which relates to his position as a great teacher, human form; like we address our professors. After he ignores her (which is still a stickler for me)she throws herself down before him, and bequests an earnest plea as in an earnest prayer. She then calls him Lord, giving way to his divinity. Maybe all this time, Jesus was trying to impress upon her and the disciples that they and we need to appeal to him as he is God, Lord, not as a "great man." I am hoping to impress upon the need for sincere prayer, asking God for help, because no one else has the power or the authority. What do you think? Oh, I believe someone else may have posted this but Jesus using the word dog; in Greek this is translated as a "lap dog, house dog, or pet." He was careful to use this word and not the one that eluded to the scavanger type dog that was rampant in that area. God bless you all elder2b
Hello all. I have frequented this forum for over a year, and I always am inspired by the Spirit's use of it and of you.
I want to respond first to the conversation between Nail Bender in NC and Rick in VA. I can see where both of you are coming from. May I suggest that there may be a middle place in which to meet. I do not believe that everything belongs to everyone communally as the woman in Nail Bender's story seems to suggest. Nor do we need to stick unwaveringly to individual property rights. I do believe that we are entrusted with the riches of God -- that we are managers, if you will. I would have liked the story better, and I think it would have more closely reflected the story in scripture if the woman had asked for what she needed. That would have given the person running the store to either share that which had been entrusted to them, or to turn her away. Jesus seemingly found himself in the same situation. The "dog-woman" asked for a part of the Father's blessing over which Jesus had charge. We see the choice he made -- eventually.
For my own sermon on this passage, I am working on the following angle, and would appreciate any responses: I believe that somtimes God responds with, "Wait," when we make a request. Perhaps by rebuking the woman the first time, Jesus was saying "Wait." Perhaps he wanted to see if she was willing to humble herself before him. I say this because he did that to me. During the time that I was running from my call, I used to ask for help from God on job interviews and such. It was not until I became willing to completely humble myself before him that the call was laid fully upon me.
help in
Hello all. I have frequented this forum for over a year, and I always am inspired by the Spirit's use of it and of you.
I want to respond first to the conversation between Nail Bender in NC and Rick in VA. I can see where both of you are coming from. May I suggest that there may be a middle place in which to meet. I do not believe that everything belongs to everyone communally as the woman in Nail Bender's story seems to suggest. Nor do we need to stick unwaveringly to individual property rights. I do believe that we are entrusted with the riches of God -- that we are managers, if you will. I would have liked the story better, and I think it would have more closely reflected the story in scripture if the woman had asked for what she needed. That would have given the person running the store to either share that which had been entrusted to them, or to turn her away. Jesus seemingly found himself in the same situation. The "dog-woman" asked for a part of the Father's blessing over which Jesus had charge. We see the choice he made -- eventually.
For my own sermon on this passage, I am working on the following angle, and would appreciate any responses: I believe that somtimes God responds with, "Wait," when we make a request. Perhaps by rebuking the woman the first time, Jesus was saying "Wait." Perhaps he wanted to see if she was willing to humble herself before him. I say this because he did that to me. During the time that I was running from my call, I used to ask for help from God on job interviews and such. It was not until I became willing to completely humble myself before him that the call was laid fully upon me.
help in
Please forgive me for not signing my post regarding Nail Bender, Rick, and my sermon idea.
Revrosser
Revrosser,
Just to offer a clarification my friend. I appreciate your desire to have the story be set in a different venue so that it might better reflect the story of scripture, however, the "story" is an actual event. From your remarks, I wasn't sure if I had made that clear.
Shalom, Nail-Bender in NC
Debbie, that is an awesome, Spirit-blessed narrative! Can I tell this story Sunday and credit you? It is helpful because it combines the important concepts and draws the listeners to consider them as they hear a story. Thank you so much for sharing this. My own thoughts are that Jesus is verbalizing the Disciples' own prejudices, hearing them thinking. Have you noticed how everytime someone needs something, they are all for sending them away. (Remember the hungry people in Matthew 14?) I think Jesus was silent because He was hoping the disciples would advocate for the woman, but NO! He says out loud what they are thinking and this woman is able to confront that prejudice with the powerful truth of faith. Jesus (as someone has already mentioned) acknowledges her great faith (in contrast to Peter's little faith last week). In Genesis 22:18 God tells Abraham that through his offspring all nations on earth will be blessed. It seems like Jesus keeps leading his disciples to opportunities to advocate and support people in need and they keep ducking the chances. Abraham's decendants must be a blessing to others, which is not possible when turning away from the needs of others. Blessedly for us, the disciples learn to carry Christ's blessing to others after his death. This episode with the woman and her strong faith is another missed chance, but ultimately a learned lessons for the disciples. I really like your approach in narrative form Debbie, can I use and adapt it? DL in ME
Dear all, I have been reading this forum for quite awhile and have got a lot of inspiration from it. I am calling my sermon "Do you feel like a dog"? I have often felt like this but I preach it in order to touch those who see the institutional church as something holy and good and they not worthy of being a part of it. I have prayed with and have conversed over the years with a women who feels so unworthy to gather with us each Sunday that she doesn't attend. I know there are many others "out there" who feel the same. We often see the warts on the Church. Others see the holiness and in the reflection they see themselves as "dogs" as "wretches" and it is not anything that "the Church" has done to them to make them feel this way. In Jesus' silence the woman may have indeed seen herself as a dog, but she also discovered herself as worthy of the grace of God. In Jesus silence I have indeed seen my sin and as I have gazed on His face I have found my salvation. So to all the ones who feel like dogs its ok just don't give up. In terms of Sanctification, maybe a good prayer to go with this scripture would be "Please God make me the man that my dog thinks I am". FB in AZ
DL, please feel free to use any part of the narrative. If it is Spirit Inspired -something I strive for each Sunday but never know if I achieve- then it is not mine to lay claim to anyway.
Thanks for your thoughts- as you might be able to tell, Jesus' initial responses are still something I struggle with. I would HOPE it was a test to see if his disciples would respond, but like much in the Scriptures, it is not clear cut. So we are left to wrestle with it (and I believe that's what God intends)
By the way, what part of Maine are you in? Just curious.
Debbie in Bango, ME
Re those who must prove themselves. . . "Are they, in faith, settling for crumbs under the table?..."
Whenever we try to *prove* ourselves, crumbs are often all we get. However, when we stop trying to prove ourselves and instead live the life God has given us to live as faithfully as we can, we discover that are no crumbs, but rather a feast.
To ST: Your sermon for 8-15 has wonderful insights, and I am using some of them, as well as quoting you. Blessings on your minsitry, you have great gifts.
Katherine in Portland OR
Northern Maine, with a capital N! DL in ME P.S. I wound up writing my own story which took it's own direction, but it was a blessing to draw on the idea of "daring" to do narrative as well as the important concept that there is more than one way to see this story and still there are questions. . . Thanks
PUPPY LOVE
Jesus says our hearts are in our mouths for it's what we speak and not what we eat as nature may take us south
As Jesus explained these words that caused offend he is now confronted with a Canaanite woman whose wits have no end
Surely we know and can understand the difference between a puppy dog and man's best friend
The hap chance meeting was out of Jesus' realm for it was his lost sheep that needed to be found
Yes but Jesus was faced with his own words as they come from the heart as he was surprised to hear the faith upon a foreigner's part
Surely we know and can understand the difference between a puppy dog and man's best friend
Jesus rewarded faith outside his own flock just like we treat a puppy dog which is not yet full grown stock
Matt 15:10-20/21-28 August 15, 1999 ---Copyright c 1999