Date: 13 Jan 2003
Time: 07:57:13
Jesus spoke with authority. Authority is different from power. Power is from without as one is endowed with a power of acting as doctor, teacher, priest etc., Authority is from within. It comes out of our experience of God. When there was a clash between the Hindus and the Moslems in India immediately after the independence the police was sent to quell the violence, but it could not. Then Gandhiji went there and declared a fast. At once the Hindus and the Moslems came and threw their weapons in front of Gandhiji and asked him to eat. What bullet and guillet were not able to do, Gandhiji was able to do it. This is what the moral authority. Jesus spoke with authority. How important for us to be in union with God?! Selva Rathinam, (selvasj@hotmail.com), Berkeley.
Date: 18 Jan 2003
Time: 16:15:02
An early thought; Looking at the Gospel and NT lesson, I wonder what more authority is there than when we speak by our own actions. How we, who claim the name, live speaks with great authority of what it means to be Christian. If we speak peace and promote violence in language and acts, which has authority? If we speak Love of All, and treat the poor and outcast differently, where is the authority? Time to think. revjcb of NE
Date: 21 Jan 2003
Time: 12:07:33
Interestingly, the physical presence of evil can be removed/sent away from this synagogue visitor with a mere word from the Holy One of God. Yet, the defeat of sin would take much more than mere words. It would take the cross. The locality of sin is both in the heart and in the demon. Like a residual infection, sin continues in the man, though the demon departs (perhaps in search of another sinner in which to hide). Had the man had no sin in the first place, the demon would have to find another host to trouble. I have oft prayed, "Come, Lord Jesus, be our guest..." What residual is left as Christ abides in us? Is not our desire the permanent residency of Christ? Then also, I believe, our lives, our actions, our words will carry more authority. Another thought...what was it that made one vulnerable to evil taking up residence? Early musings. ARMY CH E, Fort Belvoir, VA
Date: 22 Jan 2003
Time: 06:42:08
The Psalm today says that "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." And Paul's letter to the Corinthians says that "knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." Add these to Jesus in Mark, who is perceived as one who teaches "with authority," and the field is ripe for preaching the subtleties of wisdom, knowledge and authority: --wisdom as knowledge in practice --knowledge of God as creator and Lord --authority of God and our dependence on God's grace. Ponderin' Pastor in IL
Date: 23 Jan 2003
Time: 10:11:03
Without proper actions authority is not there or misused? Nancy-Wis
Date: 26 Jan 2003
Time: 14:02:49
This Sunday is also Candlemas, or Groundhog Day, with its traditions about how much winter is left and the coming of spring. In checking out one of the websites, I made a connection between candles and authority: by what authority does a burning candle dispel the darkness? By what authority does Jesus dispel the demons? Still early in the week . . . OLAS
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 08:03:40
I have a few unclean spirits (trouble makers) in my church. I wish it was that easy to simply say, "be silent and come out of him." The Lord knows I have tried! =) I guess authority has to be recognized before it can be effective.. KB in ks
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 08:09:07
I too am led to preach about the issue of authority; to teach, preach, and cast out demons. Do we, as believers, have the same authority as Christ? If we do, it must come to us through the Holy Spirit. Can we claim the authority and act on simple faith? Will my congregation appreciate me telling them to go out and cast out demons with the authority of Chirst with only blind faith? They may nod politely and leave unmoved. What can I say to make them realize the true authority they have in Christ Jesus? Early thoughts, Lori in NC
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 08:09:13
Hi DPS'ers Really appreciate the food for thought found on this site. I am preaching a trial sermon this week. I confess this scripture is not my favorite, but have found that by being faithful to the lectionary it stretches me. Please keep me in prayer that the Holy Spirit will work through me. ks in Me
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 09:18:08
It is intriguing to me, though I don't know what to do with it, that an unclean spirit is the first to recognize Jesus as the Holy One. The disciples in Mark's Gospel go with him but we don't get any glimpse into their motivation. I also wonder about what was so new about speaking to unclean spirits. Weren't there people before Jesus who cast out evil spirits? Avis in KY
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 12:17:09
More thoughts on the text as I wrestle with it. "In the synagogue" is a man with an unclean spirit. I thought that was interesting. The man asks two questions of Jesus, 1) What are you going to do with us? and 2) Have you come to destroy us? Then he makes a statement declaring/confessing Jesus as God's Holy One. In Christ's church, people are wondering what is God's business with us. Perhaps even asking if He intends that we die in our sins. These are deep spiritual questions. What is God's intent with me? Does He desire my death for sin, for truly, I am a sinner? Through the Gospel, through faith, we too declare/confess Jesus as the Holy One of God. As we do, we discover the answer to the questions, that His desire is to save and to give us life. Unlike with the man possessed, Christ does not rebuke us, nor does He tell us to "be silent". Rather He commissions us to "Go and tell!" ARMY CH E, Ft Belvoir
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 13:08:32
I am wondering if someone can take the thought put forward by another dps-'er' "What was it that made one vulnerable to evil taking up residence." I am caught by that question and may wish to pursue it a bit if anyone can help. I work in an inner city area and we are certainly surrounded by issues of violence and evil. Thanks for any help. Pastor in Canada
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 13:47:51
No, we do not have the same authority as Jesus. As the scribes needed to rely on the words of rabbis about scriptures, "according to Rabbi so and so..." We rely on others. The Bible says, Jesus says - we rely somewhat on commentaries, and of course the Holy Spirit. Jesus was God and so there is no higher authority. We are not God and do have a higher authority - God! PH in OH
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 15:05:03
I work in a small town, 6000 and there is plenty of violence and evil here too. Nancy-Wi
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 19:59:12
Not one to give "The Evil One" much, if any "air time" from my pulpit... the evil of war looms on the horizon... one local father was singing lulaby's to his three-week-old son... while he prepared to "ship out" today with the local Air Guard for points unknown, his orders are for one year. Another senseless war... when will we learn? Why must there be "an evil one" for us to be against? At a local meeting of UMC's... a lay person said the first thing we need do is "Pray Satan Out" of the room... this passage from Mark's gospel... doesn't excite me much... yet, I'll preach it... my spin, well, is still "spinning". Eric in KS... you know where to find this, here is my question? Is this passage fulfilling a prophets words of earlier days? Where does one gain this authority? Some say a pastor is given so many "chips" when he/she starts their ministry in a church? I think they come with trust... does authority come that way too? Is authority like "respect"? Can one "get" authority or does one just "have" it? I know what you mean... the difference between a good parish and a great one... is our ability to 'cast out the demons'! ;?) Still thinking, outloud, obviously? Thanks for the help all! Make it a great week, with AUTHORITY, pulpitt in ND
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 20:03:18
I miss the ability to make paragraphs, had I known my thoughts wouldn't be "broken up"... I could have sent about 10 additions to the DPS page today! ;?) Looking forward to the discussion this week! Blessings, pulpitt in ND
Date: 27 Jan 2003
Time: 21:14:12
I have to admit, though it may change how you think of me, that I hear voices. Just about all the time. Sometimes the voices say "You are such a stupid____!" or "If anyone really knew you then nobody would love you". Sometimes the voices say "You need MORE to be happy. Aquire more, that's the ticket!" Sometimes the voices whisper "It will be alright". I know that the trick is to discern which voices are of life and which are of darkness. Sometimes that's a pretty touchy task. I know that the 'demon' voices have to go. But it is awfully hard to drive out your own demons, to quiet your own voices. But when we gather at the table, when we share the word and break the bread of our lives and thereby make God present, according to the given promise, then, sometimes, the demon voices are quieted and, maybe, driven out. When we are topgether and God-with-us (in you) speaks "Be quiet! Come out of him!" and your love is the authority--then I am touched, then I am healed. ---Calvin; MN
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 7:37:05 AM
As I read this text, I am reminded of how often when people speak of life-changing events they have experienced in their church lives, they very often will say, "Now I don't remember what the sermon was about or what anyone said, but I remember what happened.
Here's Mark telling this story about Jesus's teaching in the synagogue. He doesn't talk about what Jesus said so much as what happened to the man with the unclean spirit.
GC in IL
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 7:57:42 AM
Part of my struggle with this text is the whole demon possession. After working with the mentally ill for many years I am sensitive to how many of them are labeled "possessed" by well-meaning but uniformed church folk. One parishioner asked me if they would not get well if they just "got right"with Jesus. since I am preaching down the river from a large state mental hospital I am wondering how to preach on this text...perhaps the unclean spirits (which we all can claim) is the way to go. I am concerned that if I just focus on the authority of Christ (the point anyway) I am dodging the rest. ks in ME
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 8:39:01 AM
Notice how difficult it is to talk about demons anymore? Almost like we are embarassed to speak of the evil side of the supernatural. Yet the reality of spiritual warfare cannot be denied. How do we talk of these things from the pulpit without sounding like we are not "enlightened"? B.P. in IA
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 8:50:08 AM
I've given some thought to how I will read this pericope out loud. How did the man's voice sound? Scared? Sarcastic? What about Jesus? Was he calm and assured? Angry? And, the voices in the crowd as they were amazed . . . the NRSV uses an exclamation point in v. 27. Did their tone move from a question (What is this?) to a declaration (with authority!) -- as a discovery? Or, was that part of the questioning tone? I'm aware that someone who reads scripture out loud interprets it with voice inflection. This week's lesson will take some extra meditation and practice on my part. MTSOfan
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 8:54:34 AM
I still marvel at the dynamics of the key players in the text. They were "amazed" at Jesus' teaching as one with authority. By what standard? Was Jesus merely a good salesman? Or was what He was offering something they "desperately" needed. Maybe a Desperate Hearer's Site would've helped.
The listeners in the synagogue had fed on the Word of God for years, one might assume. Yet, upon hearing Jesus teach, something else was occurring. They were more than fed, they were perhaps for the first time, nourished and fulfilled. The visitor enters and counters Jesus with a loud outburst and immediately speaks of destruction and death, not of hope or life. But the question perhaps sticks to some of the minds of the crowd. What is Jesus' purpose really? Immediately upon proclaiming truth, opposition is raised. Immediately upon opposition rising, Jesus dispells it with a simple command...His Word..."BE SILENT, COME OUT".
We live in perilous times. People seek and hunger for hope and fulfillment and life. Like a baglady in a crowded city, often she settles for scraps missed by stray cats in filthy alleys. Would that someone would offer her the best food. In the Gospel, we have the best. In Jesus Christ, we offer a banquet that fulfills to eternal life. Sadly, the crowd in the text spreads Jesus' fame. Nothing is said of sharing the good food of His message.
I think my message will emphasize the power of the Gospel to not merely teach, but to enlighten, to bring hope, to change our entire life. This is a message worth spreading in a world hungering for truth.
A question raised earlier on "another senseless war, and when will we learn" needs at least some attention...when the temple is no longer visited by spirits that seek only to speak of destruction, when tyrants stop sending others to slaughter the innocent out of fear of threats to throne, when God's people begin to grasp the words on I read on Dietrich Bonhoeffer's marker in Flossenberg, Germany, "Denn Gott hat uns nicht einen Geist der Furchtsamkeit gegeben, sondern der Kraft und der Liebe und der Zucht." (2 Tim 1:7) That is when we will learn and senseless war will cease. Again, I refer to an excellent article on Moral Clarity: http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0301/articles/weigel.html ARMY CH E, Ft Belvoir.
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 9:19:05 AM
Why are demons more interesting that turtle doves and pigeons?
Is there no one out there who planning to preach on the Presentation of our Lord in the Temple?
tom in ga
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 9:35:05 AM
Dear DPSers,
as you may have noticed, we had to switch servers and web host companies because our former web provider upgraded to a version that wasn't agreeable with a lot of functions (among others the paragraph-making ability) of our FP system.
I apologize for any inconvenience; we are working hard to make the transition as smooth as possible.
Should you notice any problem, bear with us; should this problem still occur next week, please let me know at help@javacasa.com
Thanks and many blessings...Frank
Frank Schaefer, DPS director
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 11:44:47 AM
I just came from reading an article by George Barna (and others) detailing the state of worship in the US today. It indicated that, in spite of the fact that the research was conducted among regular attenders almost no one reported experiencing a direct contact from God in the worship itself. In fact the thought of a direct divine intervention was perceived as a negative. People want to be comforted in worship, not confronted by God. And here in Capernaum there is a direct confrontation. Luther's line, "When the gospel is preached devils are set loose and start to roar among us." somehow also fits for me with this passage. Perhaps this is an opportunity to shed some light on experiencing God's presence in corporate worship? Any thoughts on this line would be greatly appreciated! ugghh this one's pushing my envelope... Prky
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 11:55:42 AM
Tom in GA,
I, for one, am not preaching on the Presentation of Our Lord because I just preached on it on Dec. 29. I don't understand why the compilers of the RCL are so repetitive (likewise w/ the Jonah text last week that we heard only about 4 months ago); aren't there enough passages for them to choose from?!!
Perhaps you could find some help under Dec. 29, 2002. Blessings,
Heidi in MN
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 11:58:37 AM
Avis in KY,
I read William Barclay on the exorcism of demons this morning (in the Daily Study Bible series?--am I remembering that right?--it's not in front of me now). He pointed out that, yes, others in Jesus' day tried to exorcise demons (and presumably some were successful; now THAT gives me pause!). But the difference was that they relied on magic, sorcery, spells, fancy words and rituals, etc., while Jesus cast out demons solely on the authority of his Word--and only a few simple *words* at that.
Hope that helps some. Heidi in MN
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 12:04:24 PM
There were people watching all this happen. It’s almost humorous how they responded in Verse 27.
“We never did it that way before. This is new.” What a UNDERSTATEMENT. It’s new, OK. The Son of God changing an outsider’s life right before your eyes.
Most people see somebody causing trouble, and they just assume he’s a troublemaker. You know how troublemakers are. Once a troublemaker, always a troublemaker. How do you deal with troublemakers? You can ignore him, you can avoid him, or you can take him on and throw him out. After all, he’s unclean anyway.
But Jesus took another route. The Son of God doesn’t do things like we would. He doesn’t ignore him. He doesn’t avoid him, and he doesn’t take him on and throw him out. He changes him.
And because the people saw how he taught and how he acted, his fame spread.
I would hope that his fame would spread throughout our community because of his teaching and his actions.... and becasue of how he has changed us.
GC in IL
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 12:14:17 PM
The man asks two questions of Jesus, 1) What are you going to do with us? and 2) Have you come to destroy us?
Maybe (1) is a question from the poor, the unclean I think the word last week was ainwan, (spelling)
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 12:16:12 PM
The man asks two questions of Jesus, 1) What are you going to do with us? and 2) Have you come to destroy us?
Sorry I hit the wrong button! number (2) being from the demons. I think Calvin, Mn is on an good track. What are the demons that posecess us. For some they are very powerful drugs, fear, grief, etc. Nancy-Wi
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 12:29:34 PM
In military occupied countries where there inner conflict between the ruling authorities commands and religious imperatives there is more likely to be mental illness and bizarre behaviour in which people seem to to opt out of rational decision making. "Unclean" actions can signify this. Some times that those can be written off as mad can speak the truth more openly thus the demon possessed are freer to and confess recognise who Jesus is without being as much of a threat to the heirarchy. Letting go of demons sometimes means embracing the hard even ambivalent decisions of life and trusting that God goes with us into the grey areas of the real world. Blessings Petereo.
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 1:14:01 PM
The Jesus of the 21 st century...reminenscent of that sci fi show that Gil Gerald was in Buck Rogers in the 24th century. We just got thru with the calling of the first 6 disciples. Now here we are , in capernicum, Jesus; astound all Authority and confidence, we know why GOD is with HIM! Holy Spirit empowered! Then A unclean man, se demons even know Jesus and his power. Does that mean they get chance for salvation? no...Jesus Rebuked and it left! WOW'ed the audience... A new teaching? Jesus Is preparing us also in this 21st century to do a new thing! Take authority, asound, not just clergy anymore, Laity be ready! A new thing is coming! Are you ready, As Bette Davis line, Sit tight, will it be a bumpy ride? Pastor Mary in OHIO
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 2:25:41 PM
In my face-to-face lectionary group this morning we talked about how some Christians are obsessed by demons: demons of addiction, alcoholism, lust, etc.
I have room in my theology for the understanding that there is a spiritual battle going on around us. We may not see the demons and archangels themselves, but we see the effects of the battle: a congregant beset by alcoholism accepts her condition and goes into recovery; a family almost torn apart by an unwanted pregnancy is moved by love to reconcile; another family is ripped apart by a father's addiction to pornography ... and this battle is lost, for now.
The problem is this: In the UMC, we don't speak much of some things, particularly from the pulpit. I'm not sure of the reason. Perhaps we believe if we ignore this spiritual reality, it will just go away. Perhaps we feel not quite as competent as our Pentecostal brethren to preach on such matters. Perhaps we do not believe our congregations will accept the reality that a spiritual war does, indeed, rage around them. Then again, perhaps those in the pulpit don't believe it theirselves.
I, for one, believe it does exist. And I believe Jesus had the authority to cast out the demons, and that His disciples receive power in His name.
By the way: I do not believe Christians can be possessed by demons, only oppressed, since the Holy Spirit inhabits the house.
PastorBuzz in TN
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 2:35:21 PM
I'd like to return to "authority" for a bit if you don't mind. I think of it as the A word. It's not something that's comfortable for me. However, I've noticed that as my confidence grwos, I'm able to speak more assertively, more kindly, less defensively, and more focused - both when I was a lay person and now that I'm ordained. I'm less likely to get into arguments and get hooked into trying to talk sense into people. I had no idea how to (as the bishop says to us at our ordination) "take authority as an elder in the church ..." I think we're all wise to question what this means - Christ's authority, our authority, others' authority, the authority of the personality disordered people who threaten to leave every time something doesn't go their way ...
In Jesus' case, I believe it came from a confidence that he could command, he could instruct, he could rebuke.
I wonder how that bumper sticker would "preach?" You know, "Question Authority"
Here's to Jesus' unquestionable authority
Sally in GA
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 2:36:22 PM
Has any one linked this text to the movie "Catch Me If You Can?" Basically, the movie, which is based on a true-life story from the 60's, deals with the life of a con-artist who also forges money. The con-artist isn't even 20 years old yet. But he successfully passes himself off as an Airplaine Pilot, then a Medical Doctor, and after that, a Lawyer. He's able to do it because he acts like he knows what he's doing, even when he doesn't. He acts with authority. I'm wondering what further connections could be made between the movie and the Gospel.
Now something totally unrelated - but a good quote related to this scripture: "When the gospel is preached, devils are set loose and start to roam among us." - Martin Luther
The Iowa Starr
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 5:01:09 PM
I believe one reason we don't preach too much about demon possession from the pulpit is that most of us are not given the gift to recognize the demons that can possess people. We can't diagnose the difference between spirit-possession and chemical imbalances in the brain. The danger is diagnosing spirit-possession, then blaming the victim for having not enough faith when the excorcism fails, when maybe it wasn't a possession in the first place.
I liked the comment about being oppressed rather than possessed when one is a Christian, and this might work well with those who are alcoholic among us, as the person admits that God is the one who has the power to overcome this addiction, particularly since we don't on our own.
We looked at this text in a class with a Greek professor not too long ago, and he said a literal translation of the demons' first words are this: "What is it to thee and to we?" In other words, rather than, what do you have to do with us, it may be interpreted as, "What do you and we have in common?"
Something to consider.
Michelle
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 5:03:47 PM
Oops! I meant to address any addiction, not only alcoholism, and to mention that the process that admits God is the one in charge is part of the Alcoholics Anonymous (and related) programs. Other treatment processes may not include God.
Michelle
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 2:37:01 AM
This is an Epiphany text in which Jesus is revealed as the Son of God. At least this event in the life of Jesus is one piece in the puzzle that reveals part of who Jesus is.
It is like the old game show, Concentration. As matches were made and squares were turned over a picture and/or puzzle was revealed. This text is like one more area of the puzzle being turned over. We don’t really know who Jesus is until all (or at least most) of the puzzle is visible.
Jesus taught with authority in the synagogue at Capernaum. There was a man with an unclean spirit in the synagogue. (Are the people with unclean spirits in the church? Are there pastors with unclean spirits in the church?)
This man (or spirit?) knew who Jesus was (v 24). It is ironic that the one with the unclean spirit recognized Jesus while the people of God were astonished by his teaching with authority. They apparently recognized the unclean spirit, but they did not recognize the Holy One of God. However, they did recognize that they had witnessed an exceptional event and that Jesus was exceptional.
Jesus is revealed as the Son of God a little bit at a time. The Christian life is a process of experiencing these revelations and over a period of time coming to a greater and greater understanding of who Jesus is. We are changed as people as we add to this body of knowledge throughout our lifetime. The more we know about Jesus, the more of an impact he has on our thinking and our acting.
I am going to relate this to Communion by saying that Jesus is made known to us through the sacrament. As we receive Communion again and again over a period of time, we come to know more and more of who Jesus is. This is God's grace at work in us. We are in process. Picky Preacher in GA
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 5:54:08 AM
True authority, authentic authority is not derived from power but from trust and respect. True authority does not control, it authors. You can be an author and it doesn't mean you have to write articles or books. You can be an author as you nurture and encourage others and as you allow God's spirit to work through you. http://home.twcny.rr.com/lyndale/epiphany4.htm
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 8:00:20 AM
I feel like the texts and the comments from the past few weeks have brought me to my sermon for this week. And yet I am still ditherieng a bit. One of my resources used the title a New Authority. Jesus spoke with authority - a new teaching with authority. Well, this week we have heard from many worldly authorities - the weapons inspectoers, George Bush, Colin Powell, John Major and Jean Cretien. Unfortunately, I was not amazed by any of them - I heard what I thought I would - the same old rhetoric. In Canada, one of our political parties just held a leadership convention. One of the candidates made the statement - we will only achieve what we have never acheived, if we do what we have never done. ( His was a little smoother!) It reminded me of how peace activists are told they are naive that their solutions won't work - well their solutions have never been tried. I think I will use some of Nailbender's comments and quote from a few weeks ago - "Jesus matters." The new authority - what if we listened to this new authority. Just some thoughts - hope they make sense. blessings LGB
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 8:22:11 AM
I like what Calvin;MN said about demon posession, as listening to those voices that say "You are stupid", "You are worthless", or "It doesn't matter what you do," whether they are literal voices or not. There is the demon of guilt that tells us "You should be a better person." But there are equally bad voices that tell us we are superhuman, all powerful, the center of the universe superheros. Healing comes when we believe God's voice in baptism, You are my beloved child, and come to understand our true selves, not perfect and all-powerful, not horrible, but beloved by God. And as Calvin posted, me may need each other to help quiet the demon voices, and believe God's voice. How to we get to the point of trust and respect so that we can believe it?
DGinNYC
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 9:24:23 AM
I just got to thinking after reading all the comments about the "demons" which "bedevil" us -- the negative voices that hound us -- do we exORcise them, or do we exERcise them? Frederick Buechner writes that we sometimes nurse and actually enjoy going over our grievances and grudges like delicious morsels. When we do so, we "exERcise" them instead of the opposite. Of course, it is only as we turn (unreservedly) to God that God can exORcise that which hinders our spiritual growth. Revmar in KS
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 10:37:58 AM
I heard Sam Keen talk about how authority comes from the same word as "author." He said we are all the authors of our lives, and when we speak from our truth and experience, and tell our story, we speak with a certain amount of authority. That is why it may be a good idea that when a person speaks, they don't necessarily quote a bunch of other people, and what they think, but relay what is true from their experience.
I also like what the "Seasons of the Spirit" curriculum says about this passage. It says the man's demon possession is not so much about illness as it is about evil. I guess a good question to ask, then, is; "What is the difference between a sickness and an evil?" Last night on the news, a religious man was being convicted of molesting a child. Is that an illness or is that an evil?
William Martin, in his book "The Art of Pastoring" says the greatest counter to evil is the ability to live in paradoxes - what Jesus did so well. This is because rigid thinking seems to be so tied up with evil. ( I don't know if I wrote with authority because I quoted so many people?!). Brent in Pincher
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 11:53:27 AM
Four things Jesus does (at the least) stand out in stark contrast to what people perceived in "the scribes". First, I think, is that Jesus had intimate knowledge of the scriptures, not merely knowing where it is and what it says. Second, people saw a sincerity in His teaching that was undoubtedly absent in the scribes. Third, Jesus is undoubtedly moved by and filled by the Spirit of God. Fourth, he knows the need of the hearers and connects as no previous teachers had. I admit, that these are deductions not recorded in Mark. Jesus knows the hurts of the heart of the hearers and thus connects. This speaks volumes to the preacher, at least this one. Were I to incorporate these four things that I deduced were absent in the teaching of the scribes, perhaps one would detect a bit more authority in what I teach.
Regarding peace activists and "never tried" solutions. A peace activist does indeed act for peace. I recall reading some years ago that the one who desires peace the most is the one who stands between the enemy's bullet(or bomb, or arrow, or rock) and the activist marching against war or protesting or whatever. Sometimes the uniform is the only thing that comes between the activist and an aggressor. And the uniform contains a person, a man or woman.
Oh that we could change the hearts of those who rant and rave, who defy God's word and will, who seek to destroy peace, who love war, whose intent is to violently control their own nation's people. Rightly ordered communities seek tranquility and desire the good will of their people and nation. Public peace at times requires public and violent war. To assume that with enough love and talk of peace and desire for good will that the heart of tyrants will soften or change has historically been disasterous. ARMY CH E, Ft Belvoir
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 1:45:19 PM
To KB in ks :) The Rev. Jeremiah Wright reminds us that in this scripture the devil does come to church . . . but if you include v. 29 with this lection . . . it reminds us that we can take Jesus home with us after church!! (V. 29 = Jesus, Simon, Andrew, James & John all go to Simon's house after this event in the synagogue).
CincinatiPatti
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 2:14:08 PM
Somewhere in this scripture is the idea of doubting our self-worth and thus leaving the door open spirits, not of God, to enter. I am stopped at the phrase, "What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us?" Just musing here! lp in CO
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 2:15:18 PM
To add to Michelle's comments (which were on the nose - thank you), I'm of the opinion that prior to our knowledge about addictions, and mental illness, and ways to treat them, many people were considered possessed who were actually mentally ill. It's a VERY modern phenomenon that mental illness is tolerated at all, and we know the stigma still exists. Remember Bedlam? There is a looooong history of us quasi-normal people being afraid of mental illness, and so for all practical purposes they ARE possessed by demons - possessed by those who would imprison them. That way we can keep them from frightening us in the streets.
Having worked in the mental health profession, I often dealt with an ethical dilemma: how much is our stepping in and "helping" this person really helping them? Any ER watchers have witnessed this with the Sally Field character, especially when Abby's brother started showing signs of bipolar. Whose help are we offering, and why?
Sally in GA
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 2:23:04 PM
Pastor Buzz in TN, Don't generalize about the UMC not preaching on the evils that surround us. I do and I am confident that others do as well. Along side the truth of the existence of evil, we must also, however, preach grace. lp in CO
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 2:32:17 PM
During my work at Baptist Theological Seminary in Riochmond, I took a D.Min. seminar on personal power and authority in the pastorate. Our professor, Dr. Bob Dale, made a distinction between power and authority. (I'm not sure if this is his original idea, or if he was quoting another. I don't have my notes in front of me.) Dr. Dale said,
"Power is the ability to do or command something. Authority is the right to have that something done."
In Baptist life, as I am sure in many (if not most) denominations, there is a perpetual struggle for power and authority. How often do we, whether clergy or laity, see the struggle for power within our own ranks. (And "rank" may be the best word for these battles.) As I prepare to relocate to a new ministry, I am aware that there will be something of a power/authority struggle that will take place in the absence of the pastor. The congregation I leave is known to pass the decision making process to the pastor. Without a pastor, there will be those who will want to "take over" the power of the church. Yet, that is terribly un-Christlike, as I read the scripture.
The scripture tells us that Christ is the sole head of the church. Jesus said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." This is the beginning of the great commission in Matt 28. Would it not do us well to lead our people and to teach ourselves that authority and power belong to God, first? Maybe then our congregations could begin to grow in Christ as we releave ourselves of the terrible struggle to have POWER!
Steve in NC
Date: 1/29/2003
Time: 2:51:35 PM
Has anyone thought of using the theme of authority to point out that in a world with many different powers and authorities, the church can speak with authority of a kingdom that differs from this earthly realm. dcm
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 5:21:19 AM
"What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us?"
It's apparent from this statement that the demons recognize Jesus' authority over them. I wonder how many people refuse to acknowledge the claim of God on their lives. Jesus' authority isn't just over demons but the whole created order.
I wonder if many in the church acknowledge this authority and surrender to it. Shouldn't we be asking the same questions? In terms of destroying us, John 12:24 I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
Looks like a good Sunday for singing "I Surrender All."
John near Pitts
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 5:25:51 AM
ks in ME.... this passage is about evil - not mental illness. It may help in preparing to differrentiate. Jesus will go on to heal and cure, but this is about God's power over evil made known in Jesus. ... Which, by the way may be where we must see power over evil. So if we are going to invade and attack an "evil " nation, we have much to consider - especially the source of our call to do so and all the consequesces of such actions - the innocents we will kill and the ill will and hatred we will create in the coming generations. Anyway, I hope you do well "on trial" . Jim in ct, formerly of ME.
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 5:58:53 AM
"Repent for the Kingdom/Reign of God is at hand!" is still relevant in the sense of Jesus' ministry involves (1) preaching, (2) teaching, and (3) healing. The present teaching with author-ship, an authority not unlike that of God when the world is created by God "speaking" creatin into being, is closely connected to this healing as Jesus the Messiah "speaks" to the unclean spirit calling it forth. The unclean spirit recognizes Jesus in a more profound deeper way than the disciples. They see from their immediate experience of having been recently called into discipleship. However, the unclean spirit sees from a post-resurrection perspective. Perhaps, we need today the authoritative indepth teaching of Jesus, from a post-resurrection perspective, to speak to the unconscious/subconscious unclean spirits, which predetermine our existential predicament of "paralyzed force", to come out of us and liberate us to be/become the New Being, the New Creation, we are capable, by the Divine Intervention of the Grace of God, of being/becoming. Are we locked frozen as a "paralyzed force" in our relation to the past? That is, does the unconscious unclean spirit of guilt hold us in bondage to the death/non-being of "what is no more"? Does the death/non-being of "what is not yet", in despair and hopelessness, lock us out of a future wherein we could encounter the eschatological Coming of God? Jesus, come now into my unconscioius frozen being, where death/non-being, is the victor, and "teach/speak" to the unclean spirit, and liberate me, resurrect me, from this unconsciousness' "death bondage of paralyzed force" into the victory of resurrection! Amen. [PaideiaSCO still desperate preaching in the north GA mts...and thankful for each of your contributions from week to week]
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 8:00:08 AM
Obsessed, oppressed, prossessed by demons. I was a campus minister at a Southern University when the move, "The Exorcist" came out. At least two students in the area had psychotic episodes while viewing the film. The whole country, espcially conservative christians seemed obsessed by demons. I don't do horror movies, but I did read the book and still have my copy. There is a passage that I think has great merit that did not make the movie script. I quote it partially here. "Then what would be the purpose of possession?" Karras said. "What's the point?" Who can know?' answered Merrin. "Who can really hope to know?"... "I think the demon's target is not the possessed; it is us...the observers. the point is to make us despair; to reject our own humanity, to see ourselves as ultimately bestial; as ultimately vile and putrescent; without dignity; ugly; unworthy. And there lies the heart of it, is not a matter of reason at all; I think it finally is a matter of love; of accepting the possibility that God could love us... He knows, the deamon knows where to strike......... "There it lies, I think, Damien. . . possession; not in wars, as some tend to believe; not so much; and very seldom in extraordinary interventions such as here. . . this girl. . this poor child. No, I see it most often in the little things, in the senseless, petty spites; the misunderstandings; the cruel and cutting word that leaps unbidden to the tongue between friends,. Between lovers. Enough of these," Merrin whispered, "and we have no need of Satan to manage our wars; these we manage for ourselves. . .for ourselves." (The Exorcist, William Blatty, Harper and Row 1971)
The closest thing that I ever saw to a demon possession/oppression was in my home church in the south. A military honor guard had come for the funeral of soldier killed in an accident. One of the deacons of the church stood in the door of the church to block the entrance of the black member of the honor guard. Although I was very young at the time, I saw the demon in that deacon's eyes and heard it in his voice. And I will always carry with me the picture of that lone black soldier standing outside my church. jrbnrnc
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 8:56:29 AM
Calvin in MN -- Still don't know what I'm going to preach on, but I wanted to tell you that your words moved me very deeply. Thanks. Squeeze
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 9:21:57 AM
OK - I'm working the Mark text with the I Cor text: knowledge puffs up, love builds up. I don't see the word "power" in either the Mark or Corinthians texts, so I'm not going to belabor power vs. authority even though it deserves attention. Rather, I'm thinking along the lines of the scribes - the educated, knowledgeable folks of the time - and about Paul's statement about knowledge puffing up vs. love building up.
I do believe this is the dichotomy being illustrated in the texts: the demons know who Jesus is yet have no real authority. Maybe the demon knows what's right, and who's who and believes him/herself to have some sort of influence, but his sense of authority comes from knowledge and therefore is puffed up - hollow - and therefore is not authority. The demon believes knowledge is authority, and discovers knowledge is neither authority nor power.
I do believe there's a dig at scribes: even demons know who Jesus is. Yet Jesus offers "new teaching" (v 27) having authority. News we can use, rather than the scribal talking heads and arrogance.
Likewise, Paul cautions the Corinthians (and us) not to use our knowledge for gains but for love - not insisting on our own way (as he says a few chapters later) but putting another's perspective ahead of our own. In this case, it's idol meat. Though we know it doesn't matter whether we eat it because we reject the sacrifice to idols, if it causes a stumbling block to someone who's still sorting through their beliefs, then don't do it.
Still hashing it out ... and as usual I seem to be going in a different direction.
Sally in GA
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 11:17:29 AM
Iowa Starr wondered about the connection of this passage with the movie Catch Me IF You Can. I was thinking this very thing, and went to see the movie. I think there is a connection. The young man all dressed up as an airline pilot, authoritatively going up to cash his {forged} check and getting results because people are so impressed by his uniform looks an awful lot like the young rabbi in the synagogue who instead of quoting the elders speaks directly for God, and then authoritatively casts out an unclean spirit. What's the difference between the two? Not much, on the surface. But the pilot's authority is empty. There's no pilot under that uniform. He has nothing to offer. He can't really fly a plane. But the rabbi----he's fully connected with God, and this first act is pretty cool, but the full effects of his authority aren't shown until later, when he empties himself of his power for the sake of the world. True authority involves service, giving of one's self. Empty authority takes and exploits. JE in NE
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 11:22:43 AM
jrbnrnc- so "powerful" a passage juxtaposed with this text this week. Can you id the chracters by role for those of us who don't know? Thanks Prky
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 12:55:11 PM
This is my first time posting here, but I have benefited from the comments of several who share and thought I'd chime in.
I'm planning on focusing on the "New Teaching" aspect of this text and of Jesus' vocation.
Do you think Jesus' teaching was really new content? or is it that Jesus brought a 'freshness' to the same Good News of God that the religious scholars knew by way of erudition (without, perhaps, having it penetrate the heart)?
I'm thinking of using a bit of contemporary educational theory with this text. This quote from Parker Palmer, for example: “Truth is evoked from the teacher by the obedience of those who listen and learn – and when that quality is lacking in students, the teacher’s words are taken away. People who write about education often remind us that the root meaning of “to educate” is “to draw out” and that the teacher’s task is not to fill the student with facts, but to evoke the truth the student holds within.” (To Know as We are Known: Education as a Spiritual Journey. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1993. p. 43)
Jesus, by his sincerity, his intimate knowledge of God and his being known as the Holy One of God, does not offer a lesson plan quoting this Rabbi or that, but rather teaches in such a way that the sacred truth within those who listen is evoked. They are astounded, not by some display of scholastic and detached knowledge, but rather by the truth of Jesus' life and message that resonates within them as being fresh and holy -- enough so to surprise. That the content of the lesson is not mentioned and that the "teaching" is the sandwich into which the demonic encounter is placed, makes me think this may be "a" point worthy of discussion.
Of course, to avoid the demon-thing altogether would be awkward (wrong?), but I struggle with it. I am probably not going to focus on it in too much detail this year.
This lesson is also a good one for all of us who have the vocation of preaching and/or teaching. Do we live out our calling with authenticity in ways that share out of WHO we are and how we know God so that even when our lessons or sermons are forgotten, the sacred truth to which they point has been lastingly evoked within those who hear us?
Still thinking .... Best to all of you as you bring good news. KA in VA
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 12:55:32 PM
This is my first time posting here, but I have benefited from the comments of several who share and thought I'd chime in.
I'm planning on focusing on the "New Teaching" aspect of this text and of Jesus' vocation.
Do you think Jesus' teaching was really new content? or is it that Jesus brought a 'freshness' to the same Good News of God that the religious scholars knew by way of erudition (without, perhaps, having it penetrate the heart)?
I'm thinking of using a bit of contemporary educational theory with this text. This quote from Parker Palmer, for example: “Truth is evoked from the teacher by the obedience of those who listen and learn – and when that quality is lacking in students, the teacher’s words are taken away. People who write about education often remind us that the root meaning of “to educate” is “to draw out” and that the teacher’s task is not to fill the student with facts, but to evoke the truth the student holds within.” (To Know as We are Known: Education as a Spiritual Journey. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1993. p. 43)
Jesus, by his sincerity, his intimate knowledge of God and his being known as the Holy One of God, does not offer a lesson plan quoting this Rabbi or that, but rather teaches in such a way that the sacred truth within those who listen is evoked. They are astounded, not by some display of scholastic and detached knowledge, but rather by the truth of Jesus' life and message that resonates within them as being fresh and holy -- enough so to surprise. That the content of the lesson is not mentioned and that the "teaching" is the sandwich into which the demonic encounter is placed, makes me think this may be "a" point worthy of discussion.
Of course, to avoid the demon-thing altogether would be awkward (wrong?), but I struggle with it. I am probably not going to focus on it in too much detail this year.
This lesson is also a good one for all of us who have the vocation of preaching and/or teaching. Do we live out our calling with authenticity in ways that share out of WHO we are and how we know God so that even when our lessons or sermons are forgotten, the sacred truth to which they point has been lastingly evoked within those who hear us?
Still thinking .... Best to all of you as you bring good news. KA in VA
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 1:53:49 PM
I am going to ask the question I so often ask of my sermon study group. For those who are sitting in the pew, "What does this mean to me and how will it affect my life?" We so often get so often into exegesis that we forget the person in the pew. What is the point? What difference should this make in my life that Jesus spoke with authority? Should I read the Bible for myself instead of listening to the preacher who quotes from the latest book he/she read like the scribes of old? By the way my homiletics professor said to never refer to books we have read, the people in the pew probably haven't read them and so our reference doesn't have a whole lot of meaning for them. PH in OH
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 2:07:57 PM
I am personally quaking in my shoes this week about all of the texts and my authority to preach/prophesy. I feel called by God to step out in faith and preach "a new kind of teaching." But I did that 2 weeks ago and was seriously confronted for my interpretation of scripture. As pastor I believe that is a part of my authority, maybe I'm wrong.
Yesterday, I marched for peace in Grand Rapids and saw a very different side of our world - one I do not relish. Lots of power - lots of armor.
When we think peace, pray peace, talk peace we will have peace. When are we going to give peace a chance - this is "a new kind of teaching" - those who have ears let them ear. Sermon title "Sand Paper or Satin" - What sermons do our conregations want to hear? The satin ones those that are soft and smooth and easy listening or the sand paper ones those that may be hard to hear but smooth our rough edges - ones that are preached with authority - a new kind of teaching - I think just maybe the man with the demon has a few rough edges smoothed out.
Thanks LGB, ARMY CH E, Ft Belvoir, and Prky - you really helped with sermon this week.
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 2:13:22 PM
KA in VA, thank you for profound insight into the power of "teaching/education" out of the depths of relationship which establishes the power of language in "speaking" the gospel, such that our unclean spirit of empty meaning, whether in the form of liturgy or theological jargon, is overcome! (PaideiaSCO)
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 2:16:58 PM
On the sickness versus evil issue: Walter Wink often talks about the danger of casting out parts of ourselves that we don't like, but aren't necessarily evil. Some people think that anything we perceive as negative needs to be cast out, like anger for example. Sometimes our anger just needs to be owned and integrated into ourselves so that it looses its power over us, or can be used for good. Walter Wink doesn't rule out the case of actual demon possession, but believes that it is very very very rare. I don't know whether he wrote any of this down in any of his many books, I'm just quoting from things I remember from retreats he has given. If anyone knows any of his books that deal with this issue, please let me know.
Thanks for all your great ideas this week. DGinNYC
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 4:03:19 PM
ARMY CH E,
I hear you, and pray for you, as you are one, and work with many, who will stand between the bullets and the activists. Thank you.
Michelle
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 4:16:10 PM
Maybe the new teaching and the authority has to do with the fact that Jesus is not like the other teachers who speak only of high and mighty things. Here is Jesus, throughout the Gospels, connecting God to the people using common, everyday imagery... sheep& goats, fields seeds and the like. Maybe that is the authority not "lorded over" them as with the scribes and Pharisees but an authority that is understood.
It is also an authority that serves. Even in the time in the synagogue teaching about the kingdom of God, Christ makes it a "teachable moment" thus demonstrating God's love and care.
Here is a teacher who tells and shows.
jjinchassc
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 8:17:50 PM
Pam in san bernardino -- if you still read these please email me at rachesw@midsouth.rr.com thanks.
rachel in MS/TN
my thought s are on the power of words
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 10:54:47 PM
jrbnrnc and Sally in GA
Thanks for the Exorcist quote and the link between the Gospel and Epistle. I was headed in this same direction--love as the basis for authority, love as the master of knowledge. When I first started making hospital visits as a pastor, I felt very uncomfortable, not with the people, but with my role. I finally realized that this was not about me, not about making myself important (powerful). It was about bearing the authority of the one who had sent me. And the way that keeps from turning to power (in the dominating sense) is love (in the sacrificial sense). I can imagine the freshness there must have been in listening to Jesus teach the scripture, since he was the embodiment of the love it was meant to inspire in the hearts of the people. They recognized him as the Real Deal. (So did the demon, but there was no love there.) A bit rambly--sorry.
LM in waysouthTX
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 8:37:22 AM
"What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth?" A question spanning the generations, and an important one for faith communities everywhere. Mark offers this scene as the first act of public ministry for Jesus and his fledgling band of disciples. He enters the synagogue at Capernaum and begins to teach, astonishing those who hear because he teaches "as one having authority, and not as the scribes." Ched Myers points out that in this scene, Mark moves Jesus from the symbolic margins to the heart of the provincial Jewish order: synagogue (sacred space) and sabbath (sacred time)--Myers, BINDING THE STRONG MAN, p.141. While he preaches from the scriptures, the people hear the message in a different way than ever before--a "new teaching;" They are filled with amazement, perhaps the first shudders of new life being born among them. Jesus is confronted immediately by the man with the question: "What have you to do with us?" He adds anxiously, "Have you come to destroy US?" Who is "us?" On whose behalf is the man speaking? The established powers that be? Those who have given the definitive interpretation of faithfulness, lo these many years? What follows is fascinating. Jesus distinguishes between the man's humanity and the forces that are driving his actions. Between his identity, preciousness, and purpose in God's realm vs. the indoctrination he has received and his fear of being separated from that which is familiar but distorts his spirit. Jesus declares a promising future for the man in God's realm; there is no future for the order he is defending. When the voice says: "I know who you are, the Holy One of God," Jesus says "Be silent." Only God can define Jesus' identity; evil cannot. It will be the same for the man: "Come out of him!" The convulsions remind us of how difficult it can be to be separated from that which drains the very life out of us. But Jesus act is not just one of healing the man; the social order is being healed in the midst of the community of faith. Brent has pointed out the link between "author" and "authority:" Jesus is authoring a new story for the man and for the people of Capernaum. I would assert that the order Jesus is initiating is a nonviolent one. It is a realm in which everyone is humanized, in the holiest sense. Where citizens in Iraq are recognized as having the same value in God's eyes as those of us populating churches here in the west. Where their children will share God's future with ours. And where the screams of "What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth; Have you come to destroy us?" rising from the culture of violence are sounds of great hope and signs of the coming healing offered by our God. ARMY CH E--thansk for your thoughtful posts, and for your humanizing of people in uniform. Let me add a thought: Often it is the people committed to Jesus' way of nonviolence, humbly enfleshing the Word--folks like Christian Peacemaker Teams, the Nonviolent Peaceforce, the Plowshares, Witness for Peace volunteers--who truly stand in the breach. Those who take up their cross without a weapon in their hands.
Peace,
PastorScott in Pa
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 10:06:33 AM
PastorScott in Pa. Thanks for your contribution. Good words. And thanks jrbnrnc for the quotes and comments about "The Exorcist." Brent in Pincher
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 10:22:30 AM
Calvin; MN We all hear voices, just in many different ways. In Minjin theology it is called the concept of Han. Very interesting and something which I really can identify. I will look up the proper book title and post it next week in the Gospel section. Nancy--Wi
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 10:38:54 AM
Sorry for the mulitple post in a row here. But I have been stopped short twice by Revmar in KS comments on Exorcism and exorcising. I think this is a very valid comment for most of my congregation and even myself. When I hold on to everything, the bitterness can grow in to something much worse, hatred. I think that that blocks the Spirit's effectiveness in us and thus we cycle into a "poor me" and remain enslaved by events or happenings in our lives. It is not easy to "surrender all" to God, we are a very independent lot. Sometimes we need to process and admit first that the anger, guilt or ... is their and then proceed to give it away. I reserve that even when given away, hidden in the subconcius of our brains we sometimes still have residue. Some of our anger, guilt or ... reoccurrs like cancer. It need to be given away time and time again. I am going to focus on this aspect of the demons that control.
I too have seen evil it will make your blood run cold and your prayers to God totally different, The evil is not in the mental ill. Nancy-Wi
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 11:10:44 AM
Frequently, we hear of someone to whom God has "spoken". Who of us has not dismissed a statement like "Jesus spoke to me and said..." as some ranting from an overly zealous, well-meaning, pious soul. Perhaps we ourselves have even sensed a genuine message from God. This Gospel reading tells me something profound about "When Jesus Speaks" (possibly a sermon title). When Jesus speaks, things happen. He astounds his hearers, actively responds to needs,addresses and actually confronts his adversary, and allows and encourages us now to share His name. Again, the opportunity is presented to eavesdrop on the scene, then find parallels in our lives as Jesus comes to us in His word, confronts the evil in our lives with His law and then, through the message of the Gospel, forgives our sins. In contrast, He does not tell us to be silent. Rather, He challenges us to proclaim hope and life through Him. Interestingly, the man who appeared in the synagogue that Sabbath seems to disappear entirely. Never is he mentioned again. Mark wants us to focus on the Holy One of God. Will my hearers walk away having had Jesus speak to them? If so, will their reaction be as in the Greek, "ekplessomai", that is "blown out of their minds"? Or will they have been moved to joy at the healing power of forgiveness? I have hope. Again and still struggling...ARMY CH E, Ft Belvoir
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 12:18:05 PM
The text tells us who Jesus is through the words of the unclean spirits and also defines the authority of Jesus for us. The question asked by those present is "What is this?" The question not asked, but implied by those present really is "Who is this?" They see someone familiar as Jesus, Mary's son from Nazareth, but they are sensing that there assumption maybe wrong. The question with which we are continually confronted is the same, "Who is this?" Who is Jesus? What difference does our answer make in our lives? Am I a different person as a result? Is Jesus able to see the dark recesses of my heart as he did in the man in the synagogue? Can he heal me too, because each day I need his presence in my heart. I need Jesus to dwell there rather than an unclean spirit. L in GA
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 1:36:17 PM
I'm calling mine "I Don't Believe It!" and linking the amazement of the onlookers in response to Jesus' authority and the "knowledge" concept in the epistle; you know, "don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see?" the hermeneutic of suspicion Paul advocates we invoke when anyone claims to know something (I Cor 8:2).
The unclean spirit knows him. Others are amazed by him - but those who claim to know, the scribes, don't have a clue. I, too, have little patience for talking heads.
Knowledge puffs up, but love/Christ's authority transforms. I wonder what kind of amazement these folks were feeling - I don't like the kind of amazement when God is convicting my heart of something, but I'm not usually all that amazed at something I already know.
Sally
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 6:27:06 PM
Nancy, are you thinking of the Wounded Heart of God by Andrew Sung Park ? Han is the pain of the victim of sin. It is both/and commununal and individual. This is an Asian concept that Sung Park associates with sin. PSINIA
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 6:54:50 PM
My wife and I saw "The Lord of the Rings -- The two towers" (WHERE did they get that name? Any connection between "two" and "twin?") tonight. Message of movie (same in Tolkien's book???): The only way to defeat evil is by violence. Maybe that's the demon most powerfully infecting us in America (and rest of world?) today. Do we speak with such authority that people question this stance toward dealing with "evil" empires? See Romans 12:17 and surrounding text. Revhen in NY
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 7:32:57 PM
To Jim in Ct,
Thanks for your comments, I am well aware that mental illness and demon possession is not the same,again, my struggle is that many folks in the pews see a link between sin and mental illness. As I so often do I write two sermons and then pull them apart. I think I am going to concentrate on the issue of authority: to whom do we grant authority? in what situation? how is Jesus authority different and how does it change our life? I will, of course, touch on the man with the unclean spirit, after all he did recognize Jesus authority from the beginning. Still chewing this over... Army CH thanks for your contributions. ks in ME
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 10:16:09 PM
I have read your comments with interest. Thank you. While I think the main thrust of the passage is the authority of Jesus, I also think we must explore for ourselves and others the "how" of this man becoming possessed of an unclean spirit. I suggest that we consider that nursing unclean thoughts and acting on them will lead to our being possessed by unclean spirits. Bob from NC
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 10:31:49 PM
Revhen, you hve entirely missed the point of "The Lord Of The Rings - The Two Towers". Tolkien fought in World War I and saw great devastation and destruction. He came out of that experience with a strong bias against war. In the scene where Frodo, et. al. go through the swamp and see the dead bodies of a long forgotten war, Tolkien is making a powerful point about the senseless loss. But he also believed that there were times when people had to stand up against evil aggressors. In the film, the heroes don't fight because they want to, they fight because they have to. They are defending their homes and families. After the bloody battle, there is no "happy" ending. We see death, destruction, and environmental havoc. And we also know that this battle is not the end of evil. It is a sobering look at war, but at the same time, it is a hopeful message about the ultimate triumph of good over evil. You should read a biography of Tolkien. He was a fascinating man.
Bill in IL
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 6:16:22 AM
PSINIA yes, I couldn't come up with the title, but that is the one. I also heard a lecture at Chicago Theological Seminary on a similiar concept. I think that there is a lot to be said for the concept of han in society. Nancy-Wi
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 6:53:47 AM
sorry to be entering the conversation so late - it's been that kind of week.
ched myers identifies the unclean spirit with the scribes: it's not until jesus teaches "with authority, not as the scribes," that the spirit responds in such fear. it represents the scribal leadership of the synagogue.
robert hamerton-kelly, in The Gospel and the Sacred, points out that "holy one of God" is a priestly title that misidentifies jesus as belonging to the sacrificial institution - and says that it is this misidentification that prompts jesus to rebuke the spirit.
so ... jesus's presence & teaching in the synagogue is a challenge to the religious establishment, and the religious establishment will soon (... keep reading mark) set out to destroy the one who they perceive to be out to destroy them, according to myers.
jesus still comes and challenges the religious establishment, causing us of the institution to cry out in fear, "have you come to destroy us?"
bp. ken carder, in a teaching session on homosexuality with the tennessee annual conference, pointed out that there is a higher authority than scripture: jesus christ. while some continue to call on the authority of scripture to maintain the status quo, the living christ continues to show up and frighten us with his new teaching, his true authority. we cling to our exclusive ways, our faith in the institution, our traditions ... our oppression/possession by unclean spirits (still want to do some research on any distinction there might be btwn unclean spirits and demons).
come, lord jesus, destroy us utterly.
blessings - kay
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 7:23:32 AM
Michelle and all...thank you. Please continue the prayers
ARMY CH E
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 8:00:29 AM
Any thoughts dps ers on how to speak to the tragedy of this morning?
Shalom
pasthersyl
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 8:29:36 AM
So far I have written a special prayer. Space is a new frontier. I have followed it when it was infancey. It is a place of passion for those who go. There are no assurances that in some places you will not be a victim of a drive by shooting, or traffic accident or somehow come down with terminal cancer. Space has it risks. And since humans make and design vehicle it is not infallible. I greive for the crew, but then I also greive for the less public children of war, the less know policeman who dies or fireman. When you think of all the people lost in the oceans coming to the new world. those who lost there lives for their dreams in the new world. Space has been pretty safe bet.
I mourn for those who lost their lives and their families. But I also recognize that they felt they had a call to keep working so that humanity could benefit. This could be part of my sermon. The higher authority of Jesus and his teachings can be of comfort and strength.
This is a bit soap boxy but living in this world is dangerous. Nancy-Wi
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 8:33:19 AM
Decide to post the prayer. Here is version #1 God, We say a special prayer for the astronauts of the shuttle Columbia. We ask that you receive these voyagers of the new frontier into your eternal home. Be present and grant us your strength as we come together in grief. We ask your special loving presence be with the families and friends of those who have suffered very personal losses and grant them strength and courage and a sure knowledge of your promise. In Christ’s name we pray.
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 8:35:29 AM
Comment:
In Mark 1:25 Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be silent, and come out of him." One question comes to mind. Where did the unclean spirit go when commanded by Jesus to come out? Any thoughts out there on that?
Rev. Chris in AR
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 8:37:49 AM
I hope some of you will reflect on Psalm 111. I had planned to use this psalm for tomorrow morning, but don't want to in anyway give the impression that this was GOd's will. I know this is late, but I think we need each other preachers, we have a big responsibiliy tomorrow as pastors. Nancy, thanks for your words. Sometimes I think those who suffer regularly as you mention only get a more intense feeling of lost with international tragedies. God bless all of you in tommorrow's services.
Shalom
pasthersyl
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 8:48:23 AM
Comment:
To Calvin in NM.
You have put into words I think, what most of us feel about our selves. It did in fact bring tears to my eyes in knowing that with the authority of love the demon voices are quieted and we can be then healed. You have helped me in formulating and intregrateing what you have said into our sermon this week. My heartfelt thanks and May God continue to bless you.
In His grip Rev. Chris in AR
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 9:01:51 AM
Much of the discussion this week has dealt with the concept of authority. The demon knew who Jesus was. The people saw what Jesus appeared to be. Remembering that Satan and his angels (demons?) had been just that, angels, and therefore should have no problems recognizing God. They would recognize His power and authority even if they didn't like it because they knew it from experience. The people recognized that Jesus taught LIKE someone who had authority but they didn't recognize His authority because they had no such experience.
It would also be fair to take a look at one of the rabbinic concepts of first century Judaism. There is an account in the Talmudic tractate "Baba Meziah" of a discussion between Rabbi Eliezer and Rabbi Joshua over a matter of ritual cleanliness. Rabbi Eliezar performs several miracles to support his argument including calling for a voice from Heaven to confirm his argument. Rabbi Joshua rebuked the voice saying that the question was not up to Heaven. Rabbi Jeremiah explained that since the Law had been given to man at Sinai, God's truth was not determined by voices from Heaven or by miracles but by the majority agreement of the learned men, the rabbis. God laughed and said, "My children have defeated me." (http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/loc/Talmud.html & http://www.jhom.com/topics/miracles/violation.htm)
By what authority do we preach: man's or God's? Do we have authority or do we preach LIKE someone with authority? Just some questions as I work on my sermon. Mike in Soddy Daisy, TN
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 11:30:28 AM
I don't know, yet, how this works textually, but what if the possession was a momentary thing, like the times our tongues speak before our brains fully engage? What if the man possessed by the demon was one of the scribes, unthinkingly speaking for the scribes and saying, "Are you out to destroy us?"
Very late considerings.
Prayers for the space program and those who have suffered such public loss.
Michelle
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 11:47:49 AM
To: Bill in IL
Wholeheartedly agree with your comments re Tolkein. In making the movie, however, those involved stressed the violence and not the more vital parts of his book. The interpretation was colored by the spirit of our times. See Walter Wink's trilogy on the Powers.
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 1:02:29 PM
We can do all things through Christ who strenthens us??????
Didn't Jesus say that we would lay hands on the sick and they would recover, cast out devils in his name,and if we should drink of any deadly thing it wouldn't harm us, and handled serpens and they would not harm us.
Remember the when Jesus was going to the soldires house and he sent word to Jesus and said I am a man also in authority like unto you. I say to this one go and he goes, and to another go and he goes.
To have Authority one must come under Authority. so we must ask ourself if we are under Jesus Authority? If we are then we have Authority in his name. The name above all names.
Pastor Roger in WV
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 1:04:33 PM
We can do all things through Christ who strenthens us??????
Didn't Jesus say that we would lay hands on the sick and they would recover, cast out devils in his name,and if we should drink of any deadly thing it wouldn't harm us, and handled serpens and they would not harm us.
Remember the when Jesus was going to the soldires house and he sent word to Jesus and said I am a man also under authority like unto you. I say to this one go and he goes, and to another go and he goes.
To have Authority one must come under Authority. so we must ask ourself if we are under Jesus Authority? If we are then we have Authority in his name. The name above all names.
Pastor Roger in WV
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 3:49:17 PM
Pastor Roger in WV,
While I hear your sentiments, I cannot support the implication that each one of us will be able to all these things in Jesus' name. We are each given different gifts, and some will be able to cast out demons, but not all of us. Some will be able to ingest poisons and survive, but lest we have a mass suicide among Christians confident of their faith... since some (if not most) will not have received that gift, I wouldn't suggest it.
Michelle
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 6:50:14 PM
I'm working late as usual...
Had a colleague say he is re-writing his sermon after the morning event of the Columbia Tragedy.
Sometimes it pays to be a procrastinator...
Sad deal indeed...
Still, I watched CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, FOX...
I waited to hear from an "authority" that the seven astronauts were "gone".
Finally, they used the words... "They are dead..."
CNN web site says:
Seven astronauts who died aboard space shuttle Columbia on Saturday were saluted for "their courage and daring and idealism," as shocked Americans mourned the lives lost in the third fatal disaster in the U.S. space program's storied history.
"Columbia's lost. There are no survivors," a grim-faced President Bush said in an address to the American people. "These astronauts knew the dangers, and they faced them willingly, knowing they had a high and noble purpose in life."
We all look to authority to tell us "Everything is ok"... "We will find the shooter..." "We will find the REASON for this or that tragedy..."
We look for that authority...
It's as if we're looking for a "HERO" a "Savior" a Christ in the secular world.
I'm looking for a message in the midst of this search for authority.
Thanks for all the imput,
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 6:54:54 PM
Nancy and Michelle...
I appreciate your wisdom too...
Today I sat an listened to parents of a daughter who is "Gay"... the hurtful words they have heard as have other "Gay" children who have come to these "accepting" parents because their own parents have abandoned them because of their "Gayness" was heart renching... as if someone could "Pray their gayness" out of them. :?(
Authority affects all of life...
One commented, "Well, if I knew there was a genetic reason, I'd be more comfortable."
The Parents of the Gay daughter said, "That doesn't do anything for me... it's as if my daughter is not a valid person in love unless SCIENCE says so."
Thanks for letting me ramble... I'm sure I'll be back.
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 7:03:26 PM
A Final thought...
My sermon title is "Authority? Who Says?"
I'm going to share the story of a parishoner who shared that he had been in the hospital with Cancer some 7 years ago now. He was on the 7th floor of the Roger Marris Hospital, not many "walk out of that floor" as it is the terminal care wing of the hospital. His (Cliff's) room was across the hall from a grandmother who was dying of cancer.
One day, a little 5 year old boy peaked his head in the doorway of my parishoner. The Grandpa figure invited the boy into his room as he watched TV.
The next day, the 5 year old brought his older brother to the room with my parishoner. He was probably about 10, Cliff recalled.
Cliff learned that the boys were from a family of divorce. The father was in the military, the mother had primary custody, but the boys father was very much a part of their lives. In the summer prior to this time... the 10 year old had been golfing with his dad. And Cliff was watching a golf tournament on TV. The boys shared about how sick their grandmother was, she was dying.
The day she died, the 10 year old returned to my friend Cliff's room to say good-bye. He walked over to where Cliff was lying in the hospital bed and grabbed his hand... patted it and said, "Now YOU take care, you're going to come through this just fine!"
I would say, that THAT was the "authority" Christ spoke about... that even through the hands of a child who had not had the best "lot in life"... the authority of the love of Christ was shared.
I'm still working it out here...
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 7:44:25 PM
pulpitt in ND--
thanks for your very good illustrations of our search for authority. i had just finished my sermon, which went more in the direction of love's authority in the face of evil. but i'm saving your stuff as seed for next time around!
lm in way south TX
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 10:07:37 PM
lm in way south TX
Thanks! :?)
I'd enjoy reading yours for "next time" too...
pulpitt in ND or pulpitt@702com.net
I have more stories found below...
http://www.faithumcfargo.com/archived_pulpitts.htm
Date: 2/2/2003
Time: 5:00:21 AM
pulpitt in ND,
I wonder why the boy didn't heal his grandmother, if he had authority to heal.
Date: 9/4/2003
Time: 8:01:16 PM
WOOT GO j-DAWG !
Date: 1/19/2004
Time: 4:04:27 AM
We are all sinners and technically harbour unclean thoughts in our hearts. Are we ready to acknowledge that the authority of Christ is present in this scriptural passage? Are we willing to accept and come out with the guilt in us/ you and say to Christ - what are these sinful nature that we/you harbour doing in your presence, thou Jesus of Nazareth? Now that we/you have acknowledged our/your iniquities to Christ, our Lord will come to destroy and remove them for us? Debo Hanworth-England