Date: 14 Jan 2000
Time: 07:14:56
Jesus calls Simon, Andrew, James and John to follow him, but it is not until later (chapter 8ff) that they will discover that following Jesus means taking up a cross.
This reminds me of my own experience of chosing to follow Jesus as a triumphant zealot - long before I learnt about true servant discipleship.
Date: 16 Jan 2000
Time: 00:43:54
Is Jesus saying anything different here from what John was saying? Seems that he has taken up the mantle of John and is also delivering John's message. (1:15)"Repent, the kingdom is here!"
But then he calls the fishermen to follow him --by expanding their current occupation to a new audience. Can't recall John being tagged with this idea.
Expand your current occupation to a new audience--- Could be something like telling Jonah to give the message to the Ninevites instead of to the regular listeners... Could be something like telling US to dangle the good news in a different stream, maybe before people who don't come to church!
We who mostly sit in the pews (I'm a lay preacher once a month)need to be so caught up in the "good news" that we can't help sharing it everywhere we go. But you know, that's just not "done". Too embarrassing.
I guess that evangelism is too hard to preach to Episcopalians. Maybe I'll focus on the amazing fact that God wants US to be participants in the plans of Jesus. "Come on! You can do incredible things, if you follow me!"
Sara in GR, MI
Date: 16 Jan 2000
Time: 01:46:58
I was going to enter these thoughts with last weeks's entries, but was late in doing so.
The thing that God is speaking to me about through these passages, and others, is the reality of the person Jesus. I purposely did not capitalize Person, as I, in my tradition would normally, because I am so struck by how, in studying deeply the things of Christ, I so often lose sight of the man. I am currently reading Yancey's book, The Jesus I never Knew; Wirt's book, Jesus, Man of Joy, and Lucado's book, God Came Near. Oh, and John Pollock's book, The Master. In each of these, Jesus is seen as a man who walked through time, a man who was loved and respected. A man who, while defining holiness, was not thought the be "Holy" in the contemporary defintiions of holiness.
This is the Jesus who somewhere along the line looked around his carpenter's shop for the last time, perhaps reflecting on the many memories of Joseph, of his brothers, and of the work they did together, and then walked away, never to return; never to touch a nail again until one was drivin through his body on Calvary.
This is the Jesus who called Simon and Andrew, James and John, to travel with him, to be his companions in ministry...to be his friends!
I am just developing these thought, they are a bit random. I will come back later.
Grace and Peace Litekeeper
Date: 17 Jan 2000
Time: 01:32:22
Looks like everyone is doing Jonah this week.Me too, probably. I did the call of Andrew and Peter from John, along with Philip and Nathaneal.If I now read them Mark's call of Andrew and Peter, they might be confused. I'm sure none of them ever noticed the Gospels differ. Then again, it could be an opportunity to talk about that, how the Bible can be TRUE with out being consistent. Now I've openned a can of worms.Better quit. tom in TN(USA)
Date: 17 Jan 2000
Time: 12:04:01
Called to Discipleship to become/to be sent forth as Apostles declaring/living the eschatological good news "the Kingdom is dawning"! What relation does this Kingdom have to do with the history of Isreal? What relation does this Kingdom have to do with the incarnation/the person/the life of Jesus? What relation does the Kingdom have to do with disciple-making and with the apostolic faith, vision, and work? What relation does the kingdom have with being/becoming a pastoral servant of the sacred covenant in the 21st century? PaideiaSCO in north ga mts
Date: 17 Jan 2000
Time: 13:57:42
As we begin the UMC Confirmation Program "Follow Me," this seems to be a very appropriate text. What does it mean to "follow Jesus?" revup
Date: 17 Jan 2000
Time: 15:14:26
"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news."
We have entered the Year of Jubilee -- a holy year calling for a new beginning (Isaiah 61 and Luke 4). These words spoken by Jesus set the foundation -- the Sabbath Year will become a reality, the land will rest, debts will be forgiven, the sick will be made whole, the poor will have the goodnews preached to them, etc. The weeks to follow are the accounts of our Lord's healing ministry: What does this fulfilled time mean, what is repentance and the meaning of the gospel. Before we can talk about vocation, we must talk about this proclamation that transformed lives --- what was it that the new disciples were hungering for, what did they see, or meet in the person of Jesus? What was his attraction, what was this message that freed people from sickness and possession?
tom in ga
Date: 17 Jan 2000
Time: 16:09:37
testing
Date: 17 Jan 2000
Time: 17:46:31
My friend Andy (from the MYF) and I are sitting here having read your initial and stimulating thoughts. We have this question, because it seems so basic to the text: "Why was it four fisherfolk?".
1) Those who fish for a living are willing to hazard all for their catch. 2) Fisherfolk always dream of that great catch to come---"the big bonanza". 3) They operate in a cooperative manner, either to their advantage or disadvantage.
I think I will use #3 for a jump-off into our need for repentence for corporate sin, and our need for corporate salvation.
Therefore I am seeking a good story that will illustrate corporate salvation. Can you help?
Date: 17 Jan 2000
Time: 21:55:19
The word "immediately" is used several times in this passage to suggest the urgency with which these new disciples responded to the call of our Lord. This ties in very well with the passage from Paul in I Corinthians 7:29 that most of us would prefer to ignore, yet the last verse also speaks to the urgency of living each day to its fullest. Rev. Bob
Date: 17 Jan 2000
Time: 22:06:04
Tom in TN,
The can of worms you open has more to do with the assumption that the people in the pews are more ignorant than you give them credit for. It's typical today for the "scholarly" in the pulpits to look down at the "ignoramuses" in the pews and decide to protect them from Scripture because after all, they're a bit too stupid to handle the truth, unless the "scholarly" in the pulpits explained it to them. Reminds me of a time when only clergy could read the Bible, much for the same reasons that Tom espouses here.
A lesson that ought to remind us all that those who stand in the pulpits need to be accountable to a group of people, preferably a group who will hold that person to notions of humility, and not make arrogant assumptions about those he's been called to care for.
Rick in Va
Date: 18 Jan 2000
Time: 03:49:39
I didn't hear Tom calling anyone an ignoramous. I think Tom may be on to something. This is an opportunity to point out an inconsistancy that many in his congregation May have missed, but he will indeed be opening a can of worms. Those worms do turn over the soil, however, and might pave the way for new growth if he decides to take it on. -SS in PA
Date: 18 Jan 2000
Time: 14:54:20
There are four key words that stand out in my initial reflection on this passage. The first three are the action verbs: repent, believe, follow. These are the actions that are required of the disciple. If we were to select three verbs to describe the disciple/church today would they be the same, or different. The fourth word is "immediately." That oft-repeated word of Mark's gospel is more than just a connector to hold the various stories together within the narrative. "Immediately" is also the clear reminder that all action happens in the now. Yesterday is gone, tomorrow may or may not be. Only "now" is truly available to us, and "immediately" is our opportunity for action.
Alan Selig
Date: 18 Jan 2000
Time: 16:15:24
I once worked with poor fisherfolk on the island of Mindanao, Philippines. When I read this passage I think of them. They woke just before daybreak and went out to tend their fishing nets that were set up with the nets in a kind of maze/trap that filled with the catch during the night time. Very few of them used poles, trawling, or cast nets.
The traps caught all manner of fish, crabs, and debris. Everything the current brought toward the mouth of the net went into the net. When the fisherfolk went to the nets in the morning, they jumped into the chilly water and herded the catch into a corner of the maze. They then selected the fish, crabs, and shrimp from the pen. They weren't too picky because food was scarce. They were thankful for what they got. All the fish were welcome and very little of it went to waste.
I hope this image is helpful.
Zack in Atlanta.
Date: 18 Jan 2000
Time: 18:45:30
Fellow followers,
I would not make too much of that word "immediately." (kathos in the greek). Mark uses it like a connector, like we might use "then." Check it out in the commentaries.
Peace, Larry cny
Date: 18 Jan 2000
Time: 18:57:54
The word IMMEDIATELY stands out. Mark wanted us to know this. This word should ring true in a culture of instant gratification. This is "intant-commitment!" In this culture the half-life of our commitments are a kin to the lifespan of a miller-moth. This passage threatens we post-modern Christians. It is radical and long term. I would suggest that the time is ripe to invite people to radical and long term commitments. The give freedom rather the bondage. I have never known anybody that took the leap of faith that regretted it!
Date: 18 Jan 2000
Time: 19:23:16
Mark uses the word "immediately" 27 times (NRSV). I get the feeling this is a page-turner of a gospel, and I want to read it at a gallop! What next? What next?
JB
Date: 18 Jan 2000
Time: 21:24:50
to Sara in GR,MI The idea of expanding our occupations to new audiences grips me. Are we too embarassed? Maybe we all need to repent. Which ties Jesus' message to his call. FISHER in TN - by the way the nickname describes my hobby and my calling.
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 02:16:15
On "immediately": (1) the word translated is "eutheos," [not "kathos"]. It appears ten times in Mark 1, twice in our pericope (18, 20).
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 02:20:01
In all of the scriptures for today and during the last few weeks, people are called and they go somewhere..the wise men follow the star...John preaches in the wilderness...Jonah finally goes to Ninevah...the disciples leave their nets and families and follow him. I believe that faith always moves us on..and out of our comfort zones. Staying where we are, spiritually, is not an option. But I am concerned about what it means to follow Jeus to the many in my congregation who cannot leave ..those who are following Jesus by caring for young familes and aging parents, often both at once, those who are caring for spouses who are ill, whose who feel called to home school etc. In my own life/ministry I feel the temptation to keep "ministry" and "my call" balanced with my call to be a wife and mother of three ! Does following Jesus always mean going off and doing something dramatic ? Maybe this is anothe sermon, but how do we understand following and being called in these other contexts ? VMRT in CT
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 02:40:32
About to commit the almost unpardonable sin of contributing w/o having read carefully first - I'm drawn to the Jonah passage as well. But I am interested in how one would make a clear differentiation between this call of the fishermen and last week's call of Nathanael. I feel like I would be saying a lot of the same things.
Larry cny - "immediately" as a connector? Didn't know that but I suspect you may be right. I sorta liked the urgency . . sigh.
Off topic: I was one of the 46,000 at the SC state house yesterday asking for the removal of the confederate battle flag. Our bishop strongly suggested we show up, and I really am glad I went - it was encouraging. On my part, it didn't feel all that much like discipleship - nor did I personally accomplish anything by myself. But actually, the disciples may have had that same sense that here was something about to happen, and they hadn't the faintest idea about how to accomplish this person-fishing, but hey, why not just keep showing up anyway? kbc in (of course) sc
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 02:49:50
On "immediately" (sorry for premature submission!): (1) "Euthus" is the Greek word here. It appears ten times in Mark 1, twice (18,20) in our pericope. (2) I find fascinating the fact that in 18 euthus clearly characterizes the action of Simon & Andrew: they IMMEDIATELY followed Jesus. English sez they "left" their nets--but it looks as if the Greek aphentes supports a translation like "abandon"; other meanings appear to be "cancel" (or "forgive," as a debt) or "divorce"[!] When I plug in the fact that the form is an aorist [DECISIVE/OVER-AND-DONE-WITH] participle, and so is probably working as an adverb, I see their following Jesus as switching #1 priorities just-like-that-no-turning-back: the FORCE (DIVORCE!!)in their abandonment of the nets enters into the energy of their following Jesus. I'm very comfortable reading euthus here as thematically--even theologically significant. (3) But look at verse 20! "Aphentes" is there also--in the same grammatical form--but now these new disciples abandon/divorce/forsake, not an object (nets), but a person--Dad! They do that not to "follow" Jesus--the Greek verb in 18 for follow is not in 20--but to "go away" (apElthen). "Euthus" is in v. 20 also--but it describes how Jesus called James and John: "kai euthus ekalesen autous" = "and immediately he called them." Has any of you studied euthus more widely in Mark, to see how often it describes the activity of Jesus and how often that of others? I won't promise...but if I find something I'll pass it on. GG in NC
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 15:00:56
"Immediately" - my, how this word catches our attention! Is it because we cautious people do nothing immediately! Are we amazed at the lack of forethought (My God, had I only known!). After all, the disciples were not the smartest people in the village! It took them until Pentecost to fully appreciate what had happened to them. What about us? Where are we in this story? What 'boat' don't I wish to climb out of, what prevents my following? For me, it is because I am not ready to repent, nor believe the gospel.
tom in ga
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 15:28:06
I am following along the lines of VMRT in CT. What is the cost of discipleship? My parish is in an area where there are many family co-op farms. If the eldest children just up and left there would be caos in the family business that could destroy homes and individual families. I cannot believe that Jesus was calling these men to have this happen to their families. He cared to much for people. But Jesus did call them to come with him...what is the cost?
I am however, opening the can of worms by starting this week pointing out the differences between this weeks scripture and last weeks. To let them know there is room for differences even in the Bible. Plowed dirt is better when worms aerate it.
clw in co
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 15:51:49
I am focusing on the call "Follow me." What does this mean? I think some have misunderstood Jesus and think they have to carry Jesus or bring Jesus with them wherever they go and then force-feed Jesus to whoever they meet. Jesus' call is not "Carry me" or "Bring me" but "Follow me" Wherever we go, we don't have to bring Jesus with us, Jesus is already there. Jesus is in the classrooms (even with church/state separation), Jesus is in the factories, in the bars, in the stores, in everyplace we go already. Our call is to follow Jesus into those places and to invite (reflecting back to last week) "Come and see." Erik in WI
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 15:56:42
To VMRT in CT, I really appreciate your comments "faith always moves us on and out of our comfort zones." Altho faith sometimes means physically, geographicaly moving on and out of our comfort zones, doesn't it more accurately move us beyond our comfort zone of behavior? Maybe the moving on we're called to do is to shed some baggage, or old attitudes. Maybe it's to forgive someone we can't. I buried this week a "formerly-churched" woman who left the church, in which she was very active, a generation ago when somebody in the church deeply offended her. As related to me, the incident truly was offensive. Yet a better course for this women would have been to somehow work out the issue, maybe even forgive and more beyond, rather than to turn her back on the church for the rest of her life. All of us, in the pew and the pulpit, have ways in which we're called to move on and get beyond our comfort zones. For some, it will mean leaving the family business. For others, it will mean moving across the country. For others, it will mean staying put, but dealing with some troubling and debilitating issue in their faith life. Moose
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 18:43:41
There are some good illustrations in a site called www.sermonillustrations.com this week. The "parable" about the fisherman is familiar, but good. (I will shorten it, however). I'm thankful for all those who are helping me revive my Greek -- I guess I didn't forget as much as I thought I had. Also, VMRT in CT -- I truly believe your own statement about "leaving our comfort zones" answers your question. This is a big problem in my church, and I suppose many other churches. "Moose" said it well! Revmar
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 19:24:44
Just a thought on how "immediately" the future apostles changed what they were doing and followed Jesus. The people of Nineveh reacted to Jonah's call to reform/change and follow God’s command(ments) 'immediately' (at least within the 40 days). How willing am I to change my ways "immediately" and follow Jesus - no strings attached? Probably not too willing. Truthfully not at all. Drop everything and follow Jesus. When it comes to WWJD my J seems to translate to Jonah not Jesus. I'm more like Jonah then I want to be. I'm doing my best(or am I?!) and I wish God would strike down His enemies so it would be a little easier for me to preach to His followers. I'm uncomfortable confronting the people who don't accept the call to follow Him(or is it 'follow me'?). Another anniversary of Roe v Wade means confronting those whose view of the sacredness of life is not consistent with being a follower of Jesus. Only a 1,000 people turned out for the Pro-Life rally in Columbia. Maybe I'd rather stay where I am and be a fishermen then become a prophet or a true no holds barred follower. Darn I wish it was easier to talk to the people about God. Guess I need to spend more time talking to God before I talk to them. DeaconTom in SC
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 19:29:18
Thanks, Erik in WA for your helpfula comments. Yes, following Jesus is harder than "bringing him" with us. So it's no wonder we dilute or divert its meaning.
I'm getting a sense of direction also from John Bell's wonderfully thoughtful and catchy song, "Sing Hey for the Carpenter" (Iona, GIA). This song not only points out the other things disciples may have to leave (besides the fishermen leaving their nets, the Pharisees had to leave their rules, all of us have to leave things like regrets) it reminds us as well that Jesus first left HIS occupation, etc. The fisherman were following example. Jesus leads the way in practice, not just theory.
pHil
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 20:59:28
They weren't sure how it had come to this. Seething with anger, not speaking. Ron on his side of their small car, Jeanette hugging the opposite door. It had all started out innocently enough, in a strange setting no doubt, but certainly with no indication that they would ever find themselves in such circumstance, sitting in their hot automobile outside of the large apartment complex in a country that was not their own. "Crazy," Ron thought. The actions of people seeking the impossible, yet somehow imagining that their activities might have meaning. Insanity would be his plea, for certainly anyone with even a minimum grasp of reality would never have come to this place. "Yep, it was crazy."
The story began several weeks earlier and a six hundred miles away, in England. They had been at her sister's wedding, a miraculous event embracing the proclamation of new possibilities, offering the hope of joyful tomorrows. A wedding, bringing forth a hundred chance encounters and a thousand random conversations. An event replete with the congregation of friends and family, the joining of aunts and uncles seldom seen, the union of those whom would rarely, if ever, meet. Yet, the meetings of this clan were even more fascinating than most, for Jeanette's family was a family of missionaries. Her mother and father had served for years as medical missioners in the Far East. Another sister and her brother-in-law had also chosen this remarkable journey. Thus, their coming together was punctuated by tales of remarkable happenings, sometimes funny, sometimes frightening, sometime deeply troubling, but always wrapped in the movement of God and the announcement of abundant living. A wondrous event, a truly wondrous juncture of joy and faith and life.
Of course, with weddings, there are always the pictures, dozens of photographs chronicling the wonderment of the moment in the promise of future memories. Pictures only to be trusted to a professional. Ron had always enjoyed photography and so they struck up a conversation, he and the photographer. They talked of cameras and film and scenes. They talked of places and perspective. And in their conversation, Ron spoke of the beauty which surrounded their home at an American airbase in Italy, a beauty which unfolded just beyond his balcony, the panorama of the Italian Alps. The photographer agreed, and then in the language those seeking the bond of common occurrence, this photographer, this Christian photographer, suggested that Ron might want to meet a friend of the photographer's who lived in the area. He explained that his friend was a pastor serving a small church in Slovenia. He spoke of the man's courage in the face of dangerous circumstance, life under a hostile communist government and the struggle to discover new beginnings with the unveiling of democracy. "A wonderful story," he exclaimed. "You must meet him. You must meet Izet. One never knows what will come of it."
In the whispered stillness, "Follow me."
And so, armed with only a partial address and the most basic of descriptions, they made the two hour trip to Slovenia hoping to find this man of God. They were not quite sure why they journeyed. Perhaps it was curiosity. Perhaps it was that on this particular day they simply could do nothing better. Perhaps it was the mystical call of the Spirit, urging them to that which made little sense. For whatever the reason, they went.
The town was easy to find, a small fishing village on the Adriatic tucked away in the quiet coastal mountains of Slovenia. They were amazed by the beauty and greatly enjoyed the excitement of new discovery. For they were on quest, fishing for the unexpected, opening the nets of imagination, unsure of what their catch might bring. Following the directions of the photographer, they soon found the apartments for which they searched. Yet, as they stared wide-eyed at the scene before them, their collective hearts fell. There, spanning the breadth of an entire hillside, was the dreary block monstrosity of unimaginative construction, a massive life-draining complex, painted in dirty earth-tone yellows, consisting of hundreds of individual apartments. And in one of them … Izet.
They dumbly stood, wondering what might be their next action. Normally, they might just ask for help, but they spoke little Italian and absolutely no Slovenian. Yet, they had made the trip and certainly did not want to return without some attempt. So, they pressed forward, hesitantly approaching the first door. Gingerly they knocked, awaiting the confusion that was sure to come.
The door soon opened and they were met by the scowl of a very large woman. She was wearing an apron and displayed the obvious irritation of one disturbed from some important household task. She glared at them, awaiting their solicitation, awaiting some activity. Not knowing what to say, they stood speechless. She angrily barked in undecipherable words which were a clear demand for their intentions. Hesitantly, in English, they stammered that they were searching for Izet. The woman looked at them as if they had dropped from the sky, finding their words totally incomprehensible. Unsure of their next action, they once again began speaking. With a grimace meant to communicate her complete disdain, she slammed the door in their face.
They were stunned. They felt utterly overwhelmed by the futility of their task. But with no other discernable course of action, they approached a second door. They met with a similar response. Confusion, anger, and a slammed door. Again and again, the scenario was replayed as they went from door to door to door. No one seemed to understand. And with each door, their discouragement grew larger and larger, obliterating the sense of adventure with which they had begun, growing until it fully engulfed any remaining enthusiasm for this ridiculous notion. At last, completely dejected, they retreated to the uncomfortably warm but safe confines of their automobile.
There they sat, despondent, their frustration soon turning to anger which was quickly directed at the other. Ron, normally a man of the most conciliatory composure, found himself so furious that he was afraid to drive. Seldom had he ever experienced such emotion. So, they sat there in the sweltering interior of car, not speaking, each enmeshed in private thoughts best left unsaid. They sat for awhile and might have even dozed a bit. Finally, after many minutes, they began to talk. They agreed that theirs was an impossible task, but that they would make one last attempt. After all, they had come this far. After all, they really had nothing to lose.
And in unspoken silences, "Follow me."
They exited the vehicle and walked slowly up the steep hill, stopping at the walkway of the last building. The complex was multi-storied and uncertain which route to choose, they made their way down the stairs which led to the residences buried in the bowels of the dingy structure. They knocked at the door at the end of a long, dim hallway. As they awaited certain rejection, the door slowly swung open and there before them stood Izet.
Today, seven years and five thousand miles removed, a not-so-young man sits watching electronic words magically appear on a luminescent screen. As he sits, he reflects on the miracle of impossible occurrence. He thinks about the thousands of meals delivered to peoples bearing the descriptor - refugee - Bosnian and Croatian refugee. He remembers the dozens who made their way to those Slovenian camps which housed the remnants of a country gone mad, the dozens who went from an American airbase in Italy, bearing medicines, proclaiming hope, giving of their resource, and giving of themselves. He thanks God for the wonder of transformation in the realm of corporate reality and in the context of individual lives. He reminisces on a most extraordinary meeting that birthed it all - between a frustrated young couple and a man of God.
He remembers, smiles, and knows that out of their story, his life will never again be the same. The story of his friends, Ron and Jeanette, who once extended an invitation to him, "Follow me. One
Shalom, Nail-Bender in NC
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 21:32:56
My friends,
I hope this doesn't double post. The last line in the above story following ... invitation to him ... should read:
"Follow me. One never knows what will come of it."
Shalom, Nail-Bender in NC
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 22:08:33
One of the important elements of the story, it seems to me, is that Jesus chooses the disciples - they do not choose him. We like to be in control of things, even in our religion. We "make a decision" for Jesus; but in truth, it is he who chooses us. There were many he could have chosen, but Jesus had a habit of choosing outsiders. They weren't the kind of men given to intellectual pursuits - not the kind you'd invite for a bible study. They didn't travel in religious circles - in fact, they were looked down on as bad-tempered and foul-smelling. But Jesus calles them. Paul says: "Notice how among you there aren't many who are great or rich, or wise after the ways of the world...." Jesus chose those whom it pleased him to choose, people that noone else wanted anyway - little children, rough fishermen, women, tax collectors, adultresses, lepers. He chose those who most needed God's grace. George Bernard Shaw once said, "I have never had any feeling for the working-classes, except a desire to abolish them and replace them with sensible people." I know a Bishop who, when asked what the place of the laity was in the church, said that they could clean the church. As pastors, we also can, at times, be accused of looking at the "simple" in our pews in that way. But that was not Jesus' feeling. It is in the "least" that we see his face.
Another thing that I see here is that Jesus always calls us to a task (dusting the pews with our behinds does not qualify!) Each, Paul says, is given gifts. ALL of them need to be used. In the typical church, the work is done by about ten percent of the congregation. That doesn't mean the rest do nothing - there certainly is ministry outside of the church. But God put EACH person there for a reason, for a ministry. If ALL the people in our congregations would see their primary vocation as being a "lay minister," we would truly change the world!
Finally, I notice the unconditional nature of Jesus' call. It says, simply, "They went after him." It does not say that they caught him. Bonhoeffer said, "When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die." Jesus sets a pace that is hard to keep up with. As one of the contributors mentioned, it was hard to leave things behind. We say, "surely not ....!" But Jesus said that only those who are willing to do so are worthy of him. Luther said that it is a continuous process of death and rebirth, dying to sin and rising tonew life. Would it have been sin for them to stay and take care of their families? Yes! When Christ called them to follow him! To be less than he has called us to is always sin - "missing the mark" of the high calling.
One story to share, from Norman Vincent Peale (usually I don't care for him, but it IS a good story!): There was a man named Hack East of Spalding, England who, at age 89 was awarded a five-gallon barrel of beer by the brewry that owned the tavern where he drank. For 79 years he had drunk up to 20 pints of beer a day there, until he had worn a hollow in the tile floor of the Lincolnshire pub. Dr. Peale commented, "But you would think, wouldn't you, that he could do more in 70 years than wear a hole in the floor of a pub?"
Are we willing to leave wherever it is that we are, to leave our excess baggage behind, to follow Jesus?
Gary in New Bern
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 22:10:32
One of the important elements of the story, it seems to me, is that Jesus chooses the disciples - they do not choose him. We like to be in control of things, even in our religion. We "make a decision" for Jesus; but in truth, it is he who chooses us. There were many he could have chosen, but Jesus had a habit of choosing outsiders. They weren't the kind of men given to intellectual pursuits - not the kind you'd invite for a bible study. They didn't travel in religious circles - in fact, they were looked down on as bad-tempered and foul-smelling. But Jesus calles them. Paul says: "Notice how among you there aren't many who are great or rich, or wise after the ways of the world...." Jesus chose those whom it pleased him to choose, people that noone else wanted anyway - little children, rough fishermen, women, tax collectors, adultresses, lepers. He chose those who most needed God's grace. George Bernard Shaw once said, "I have never had any feeling for the working-classes, except a desire to abolish them and replace them with sensible people." I know a Bishop who, when asked what the place of the laity was in the church, said that they could clean the church. As pastors, we also can, at times, be accused of looking at the "simple" in our pews in that way. But that was not Jesus' feeling. It is in the "least" that we see his face.
Another thing that I see here is that Jesus always calls us to a task (dusting the pews with our behinds does not qualify!) Each, Paul says, is given gifts. ALL of them need to be used. In the typical church, the work is done by about ten percent of the congregation. That doesn't mean the rest do nothing - there certainly is ministry outside of the church. But God put EACH person there for a reason, for a ministry. If ALL the people in our congregations would see their primary vocation as being a "lay minister," we would truly change the world!
Finally, I notice the unconditional nature of Jesus' call. It says, simply, "They went after him." It does not say that they caught him. Bonhoeffer said, "When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die." Jesus sets a pace that is hard to keep up with. As one of the contributors mentioned, it was hard to leave things behind. We say, "surely not ....!" But Jesus said that only those who are willing to do so are worthy of him. Luther said that it is a continuous process of death and rebirth, dying to sin and rising tonew life. Would it have been sin for them to stay and take care of their families? Yes! When Christ called them to follow him! To be less than he has called us to is always sin - "missing the mark" of the high calling.
One story to share, from Norman Vincent Peale (usually I don't care for him, but it IS a good story!): There was a man named Hack East of Spalding, England who, at age 89 was awarded a five-gallon barrel of beer by the brewry that owned the tavern where he drank. For 79 years he had drunk up to 20 pints of beer a day there, until he had worn a hollow in the tile floor of the Lincolnshire pub. Dr. Peale commented, "But you would think, wouldn't you, that he could do more in 70 years than wear a hole in the floor of a pub?"
Are we willing to leave wherever it is that we are, to leave our excess baggage behind, to follow Jesus?
Gary in New Bern
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 22:12:05
One of the important elements of the story, it seems to me, is that Jesus chooses the disciples - they do not choose him. We like to be in control of things, even in our religion. We "make a decision" for Jesus; but in truth, it is he who chooses us. There were many he could have chosen, but Jesus had a habit of choosing outsiders. They weren't the kind of men given to intellectual pursuits - not the kind you'd invite for a bible study. They didn't travel in religious circles - in fact, they were looked down on as bad-tempered and foul-smelling. But Jesus calles them. Paul says: "Notice how among you there aren't many who are great or rich, or wise after the ways of the world...." Jesus chose those whom it pleased him to choose, people that noone else wanted anyway - little children, rough fishermen, women, tax collectors, adultresses, lepers. He chose those who most needed God's grace. George Bernard Shaw once said, "I have never had any feeling for the working-classes, except a desire to abolish them and replace them with sensible people." I know a Bishop who, when asked what the place of the laity was in the church, said that they could clean the church. As pastors, we also can, at times, be accused of looking at the "simple" in our pews in that way. But that was not Jesus' feeling. It is in the "least" that we see his face.
Another thing that I see here is that Jesus always calls us to a task (dusting the pews with our behinds does not qualify!) Each, Paul says, is given gifts. ALL of them need to be used. In the typical church, the work is done by about ten percent of the congregation. That doesn't mean the rest do nothing - there certainly is ministry outside of the church. But God put EACH person there for a reason, for a ministry. If ALL the people in our congregations would see their primary vocation as being a "lay minister," we would truly change the world!
Finally, I notice the unconditional nature of Jesus' call. It says, simply, "They went after him." It does not say that they caught him. Bonhoeffer said, "When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die." Jesus sets a pace that is hard to keep up with. As one of the contributors mentioned, it was hard to leave things behind. We say, "surely not ....!" But Jesus said that only those who are willing to do so are worthy of him. Luther said that it is a continuous process of death and rebirth, dying to sin and rising tonew life. Would it have been sin for them to stay and take care of their families? Yes! When Christ called them to follow him! To be less than he has called us to is always sin - "missing the mark" of the high calling.
One story to share, from Norman Vincent Peale (usually I don't care for him, but it IS a good story!): There was a man named Hack East of Spalding, England who, at age 89 was awarded a five-gallon barrel of beer by the brewry that owned the tavern where he drank. For 79 years he had drunk up to 20 pints of beer a day there, until he had worn a hollow in the tile floor of the Lincolnshire pub. Dr. Peale commented, "But you would think, wouldn't you, that he could do more in 70 years than wear a hole in the floor of a pub?"
Are we willing to leave wherever it is that we are, to leave our excess baggage behind, to follow Jesus?
Gary in New Bern
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 16:10:25
Can a verse or so of "Sing Hey for the Carpenter" be posted here? If it is OK to do so, I'd love to see more. Or, perhaps you can tell me where else I might find the words before Sunday. Thanks Revmar
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 16:24:39
To the poster looking for examples of "corporate salvation"
Following on your theme of fisherfolks needing to cooperate. Or, rather, the opposite. The province of Newfoudland in Canada has for centuries had the fishing industry as the bedrock of its economy, most particularly the cod fishery. About five years ago now, the federal government put a moratorium on cod fishing on Newfoundland's great banks. Overfishing had simply depleted the stocks to the point that there were no other options. Of course, major unemployment insurance programs had to be introduced to keep the population from starving.) Newfoundland fishermen had told governments over and over again, for at least fifteen years prior, that the stocks were dwindling, largely because of the breakdown of the communal fishing that had happened for generations; instead, large multi-nationals had come in with huge trawlers, dragged the whole area and taken everything. Rather than coppoerate and lead to corporate salvation, the cometition for limited resources has resulted in a situation where no one gets anything.
Heather
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 16:34:25
Revmar:
Try the Cyberhymnal at: http://tch.simplenet.com/
Heather
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 16:34:30
Revmar:
Try the Cyberhymnal at: http://tch.simplenet.com/
Heather
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 18:35:53
I believe that examples of corporate "salvation" may be good and well as long as they confine themselves to examples of how the body needs to be in communion.
But we cross into theological confusion when we attempt to minimize the responsibility we have as individuals before God to repent and believe the good news for our salvation.
I would like to suggest caution and prayer before taking this notion too far.
Rick in Va
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 18:54:04
sorry, I didn't remember the word correctly. kai euthus is correct. But even though I got the word wrong,I still think we shouldn't make too much of it. IMHO, it shouldn't always be translated "and immediately." Lots of times, it's just Mark's way of saying "and then." It's used over 40 times in Mark.
Larry cny
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 19:37:38
Thank you all for the rich food for thought this week. I am struck by the simplicity of those four words, “repent, believe, follow, immediately” as a summary of the Christian journey... We all start by repenting (turning away from the old life, and turning to God). And I think that as we’re forgiven, we begin to believe. But belief doesn’t always mean we follow, at least very far! I think that is where most of us get stuck, and we usually need the urgent prodding of a “NOW!” to get us moving. It’s a process, and one which may or may not require a physical relocation. More than anything, it seems to me it’s about willingness and surrender.
My own experience with saying yes to the “Follow me” invitation meant radical change. I was a shell-shocked welfare mom of two preschoolers hiding out from an abusive “ex,” when I was tapped to help teach in kids’ program at my church. Within six months, I was on a full scholarship to attend a seminary extension program that opened in that same church. That was frightening enough, but when I was called to “follow” to a seminary 3000 miles away -- away from my safe haven and support system and into the back yard of my ex-husband’s family, that’s where I wanted to draw the line!
Interestingly, God worked not only in my heart, but in the heart of my family as well, so we all felt able to say “Here I am, Lord” at about the same time. We sold most all our belongings, and received offerings from not one but two churches to get us going. Even with this and a full scholarship, we had only enough to support ourselves for about 6 months...only one semester. With my heart doing flip-flops, I hitched up a trailer and we headed east, not sure what lay ahead.
Fast-forward twelve years...I’m still out east, and still in a state of wonder about all God has done and continues to do. After graduation, I accepted a full-time position at the seminary, and became pastor of a wonderful little church part-time. I found and married “Mr. Right,” and my children are both in college and a source of constant joy.
Don’t misunderstand -- there have been plenty of potholes and fearful moments on this journey, but each one has been used by God to liberate me and free me to respond more quickly to his call. Even when I was diagnosed with breast cancer 5 years ago, I knew it was just another kind of “follow me,” used by God to teach me new things and to allow me to reach others in surprising new ways.
Through it all, God has rarely given me what I asked for, but ALWAYS what I really need. What can I do but follow?
Blessings to each of you...Rev. J in Jersey
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 20:39:06
I am interested in the "the Kingdom is at hand" theme. Any thoughts on this?
Also, I am inclined to "explain" the immediate movement of the Disciples in terms of the power in Jesus to move people, grab people, attract people. We are too quick to think people are moved to Jesus by our incredibly good preaching. Maybe the power is in the Good News we have to preach.
Of course this opens another can of worms. Why do some follow Christ and others never seem to even notice him? Maybe I'll save that can for another day.
Shalom to all! Boyd in NC
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 21:13:02
After going through all the comments I am struck by the preponderance of sermons being crafted around the action of the disciples; as if salvation depended only on our actions, as if the disciples determined on their own to just follow some guy. Yes we can be amazed by the actions of the disciples but let's take it back one step and be truly amazed at what God is doing when Jesus calls us to follow him.
Mark likes to put prophecy and fulfillment together (remember the mocking for Jesus to "prophecy" and then hearing the cock crow for the third time). What Jesus is doing when he calls the disciples is fulfilling the prophecy of John (and the other prophets). He is not merely extending John's ministry, but fulfilling it.
VMRT in CT was right when he said "faith always moves us out of our comfort zones" but it is God's faithfulness that moves us, not our own faith. The disciples would not have abandoned their net and divorced themselves from their lives without the presence of Jesus calling them to new lives. As an Epiphany text this is about God's faithfulness in keeping the promise of a Savior, the fulfillment of that promise in Jesus of Nazareth.
We see God's faithfulness in the Jonah text when God changes his mind and spares the city. God is faithful to God's self and to God's glory.
Yes, response to the call is important, but response can only come in the wake of God's faithfulness in calling us to new life in Jesus. If my salvation depends on my faithfulness I have little hope. But if my salvation depends on Jesus' faithfulness I have much hope because Jesus is faithful to the Father. Thanks be to God.
Jonesy
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 21:24:10
Friends,
It's been a delight and an inspiration to read the many thoughtful comments this week. My contribution: if you haven't done so already, check out the sermon by "CWfromLville" on the sermon page for this week. An excellent resource. I particularly like the notion of being "caught" by Jesus.
From Ched Myers on "fishers of people" (anthropoi in the Gk): This "image is carefully chosen from Jeremiah 16:16, where it is used as a symbol of YHWH's censure of Israel....Taking this mandate as his own, Jesus is inviting common folk to join him in his struggle to overturn the existing order of power and privilege....This is not a call 'out' of the world, but into an alternative social practice" (*Binding the Strong Man,* pp. 132-3).
Doug in Riverside
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 21:41:41
20 JAN 00 Jonesey, I'm not so worried about the confusion of salvation this week--the grace of God is clear in God's response to the Ninevites and Christ's initiative to call the disciples. Seems to me, God having secured salvation does indeed invite and we take action in the response of discipleship. I do like the "corporate" emphasis, don't think Rick in VA need worry too much about people forgeting "individual" response at least here in the USA (wonder if some of you representing other nations have a different take on this?). I like the emphasis on "moving..." perhaps literally (geographically?) and perhaps "out of comfort zones", that is, figuratively. Someone talked about THe Kingdom of God, basileia can be a place but more likely, it is ANY place with emphasis on the rule or reign of God and our willing participation in effection that kingdom..."on earth as it is in heaven." Regarding our "movement" from comfort zones, this will relate to the parishioners, the laity, w/o the risky implication that clergy alone have a monopoly on being called to a holy profession. Indeed, the current vocation/calling might be best lived out as a child (caring for an aging parent), a parent (say, w/ younger children), along with spouse (or not), friend, sibling, etc., not to mention most legal professions which give opportunity to witness with talk and walk. Blessings to you courageous and faithful preachers! Peter in CA
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 22:10:43
20 JAN 00 Used a form of this last week, but that was a different place, and it might apply to this text on discipleship and ministry... My father was a pastor years ago--but not during that time when pastors (like Dr. and others) were "paid" with cheese, butter, eggs and the like. However, he did have a memorable dinner one time: Invited to a parishioners house for a chicken dinner, he noticed a rooster observing them through the dining room window. After the meal he mentioned it to his hostess: "I couldn't help but notice your rooster--he sure seems like a proud and happy bird!" "Well he should be" came the reply, "on of his kids just entered the ministry!". My parents are proud of two "pastor" sons--but they're equally proud of their other three children. In fact, about us (the preachers) they might proudly (and accurately) say that we have "entered +A+ ministry". I.e., one of MANY legitimate ministries, be they professional or volunteer. Ours is a good and holy calling, friends in Christ, and likewise are people set apart in holy callings for the sake of God's world and all people. Peter in CA
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 23:25:49
"Why fisherfolk" Maybe because they know about patience. Or that the fishing itself is as much the goal as making a catch. How many of us lose our patience along the way or forget our own journey as we seek to evangelize others? Thanks for asking the question!
Hawk in Ohio
Date: 21 Jan 2000
Time: 01:41:50
After reading all of the above, it seems we have reason to question an emphasis of the word immediately, yet I will probably use it. Especially since the epistle deals with life in the shortness of time. We don't experience life as urgently as Paul and the fishermen, at least not regularly. I'm twirling my mind around how we respond to the gospel when our practical nature tells us we have lots of time. For example, I'm not about to live as if I have no husband! Yet I like the urgency of leaving nets immediately. It pushes me to figure out what I am to do!
On the other hand . . . urgent frantic lives are all to common. Can we recognize the need to act upon our faith as if time were short (as it well may be) without causing panic attacks, etc? I find the Psalmists words helpful at this point in my pondering. Have a look and see what you think! Can we place our hope, our very lives, in God's hands immediately?
On a personal note: My 13 year old son has decided that he is ready to be baptised, but hasn't yet come forward to make his confession of faith. I pray that he will take Christ's call to heart "soon" if not "immediately".
Blessings, Pam in San Bernardino
Date: 21 Jan 2000
Time: 05:00:49
I was having some of the same questions that Tom in ga was having, when a light bulb went on. Jesus picked "simple men" to teach and carry his message. I think that these "simple men" could sense an awesome inner presence in Jesus that drew them to him like a magnet. We must also remember that we must have the faith of a child to enter the Kingdom. The faith of a child is as pure an as innocent as it gets. If we look at them as "children of Jesus," the trust, innocense, and obedience that they displayed in following Jesus would be no different than that of a child. I thought I would clarify that what I meant by "simple men" was that they were not clouded or weighed down by the legality of the law. don b. in ny
Date: 21 Jan 2000
Time: 15:16:53
Why fisher folk? Because they were able to appreciate Jesus' use of the immage from the prophets: "I will teach you to catch people".
God in justice needed to catch out the rich and powerfull who oppressed the poor. "Hear this word you cows who oppress the poor and crush the needy...The time will surely come when you will be taken away with hooks." Amos 4:1-2
Are disciples of Jesus able to simply nitpick on the minnows of minor doctrinal or moralistic issues, or are we called to catch the big fish like politically sanctioned expressions of violence and greed, that cause the most devestation in our world?
...Nigel in Australia
Date: 21 Jan 2000
Time: 15:54:59
How do we fish for people? What are we doing to equip our congregations to fish for people and share the Gospel?
Fisherfolk know patience. They plan for their excursion. They use different equipment for different fish. They may tell the story of the one that got away but keep trying to get anything to take the hook. They try try again.
We are called to follow but Jesus teaches us to use our gifts and talents to further the Gospel. Many churches are declining in membership because we are no longer fishing. We just go out for lunch.
Bruce in WI.
Date: 21 Jan 2000
Time: 16:26:26
I know it's late in the week, but I am thinking of approaching the Jonah and Mark texts in terms of what we leave behind in following God. I notice in the Mark passage that the would-be disciple leave "immediately." Simon and Andrew leave their boats. James and John leave their father Zebedee. Conversely, in the Jonah passage, we find a man who leaves immediately, but he leaves God behind instead. I think I want to move in the direction of addressing the radical call to follow involving the departure of one life for another rather that what many do, which is carry their old life with them into their discipleship. Any thoughts?
Gary E. Maguffee Morgantown First Uniterd Methodist (cross posted to Mark passage)
Date: 21 Jan 2000
Time: 18:03:38
VMRTC - As a Mom/minister, I sure appreciate your perspective. I really really stuggle with this passage. For too long it has been preached and interpreted in a way that encourages leaving family and our present activities to "follow Jesus". What about their families? Zebedee..and who cares if he was rich and had lots of help, thats not the point. He loved them, he was their father! Let's really go deep here. What on earth does this mean...lets cast away all the interpretations we have heard. Did Jesus really call them to leave, or to continue where they were, and use their skills with a deeper awareness of God in the life they were already living, spreading that love in the simplest of day to day living. In chewing on cheerios with a toddler, in planning a business transaction, closing a real estate deal, drivng a teen to the mall, serving a hamburger, tilling a field. Just do it whereever we are. Before we do anything or go anywhere, we are called to follow this Jesus right into our own homes and relationships. Sometimes we are called to go, but more often to stay, maybe even go back to the place and the people we have ignored in our busyness - our own kids, our partners, our dearest friends. As for me, I am staying put. When I walk in my own front door, though, I am going to consider whether I let Jesus walk before me or do I shut that door before he gets a chance to get in the house. Mary
Date: 21 Jan 2000
Time: 19:00:08
I'm focusing on "Preaching the Gospel of God." That's what both Jesus and Jonah are doing this week. Of course, Jesus does it better. Every year when I take the Christmas ornaments down from the attic, I'm in a hurry. When I return them, I have more time and look around. Invariably, I find things I never knew were up there. I read the Bible every year, a different translation each year. But I'm still astounded at how often I come across something I don't recall. Jesus was preaching the Gospel of God! There's a lot that each of us can say about this. - White County Parish Circuit Preacher
Date: 21 Jan 2000
Time: 20:46:20
About immediately/euthus
In a quick review, I counted 40 occurances of euthus in Mark. From a Mark class in seminary I recall the prof commenting to the effect that Mark writes with all the "and immediately" leaving us with the sense that he gets out of breath with excitement telling the story of Jesus.
Jeff in Cedar Falls IA
Date: 21 Jan 2000
Time: 21:55:22
This sight is so good I get to read others thoughts, sometimes it inspires me and other times it just makes me think. today with all the cans of worms, sure would be a good time to go fishing. even for men. Bobbi ( wife of a sometimes desperate preacher)
Date: 22 Jan 2000
Time: 01:01:48
The Jeremiah Reading (Episcopal Lectionary) speaks about conversion and forgiveness (God's act); and the opening of the Gospel has Jesus speak of repentance and belief in the gospel. Even the call to be a disciple is God's act. Our repentance is always a response of the movement of the Word within us, a stirring that brings us home and out of the control of the other voices which we pay TOO much attention.
Return, O faithless children and I will forgive your faithlessness
tom in ga
Date: 22 Jan 2000
Time: 11:51:59
I want to use this Sunday to introduce folk to Mark’s Gospel (bearing in mind this year in the RCL is the Year of Mark and that most people will have a harmonistic view of the gospels). So I may want to make a number of observations about Mark’s Gospel in general: about the relationship of Mark’s Gospel with the others, about the genre of “gospel” and particular themes explored and emphasized by Mark (esp. suffering and discipleship). I shall want to explain the gospels as “epistles” in a different sense: i.e., they present and expound the life of Jesus with a particular congregation in mind. Mark’s Gospel is not a biography. It begins by stating “The beginning of the good news of Jesus Christ …”, not “The beginning of the life of Jesus Christ …” (Mk 1:1). The gospel (euaggelion) Mark has got to offer stands in contrast to the Roman Empire’s euaggelia (gospels), proclaiming a different sort of “ruler”. (Remember Martin Kaehler called Mark’s Gospel a passion narrative with a long introduction.)
Mk 1:14+15 is a key passage for the whole gospel: here Mark puts in Jesus’ mouth what the gospel is all about. “It’s the kingdom, stupid.”, yet the whole of Mark’s Gospel indicates that the gospel is in Jesus Christ himself. The gospel is determined more by deeds of Jesus than by his teachings.
The story of the calling of disciples is an idealized scene, typical of the way Mark sees the way a calling works: it is the sovereign call of Jesus. Note how in John’s Gospel last week the emphasis was on a third person (Philipp) being instrumental. In Q (assuming this is the joint source of Mt and Lk) the emphasis is on the choice and decision of the one who wants to follow: and Jesus warns them, makes it more difficult for them. Most congregations would mirror the variety of those sorts of calling experiences.
Mary and one or two other desperate preachers have pointed out the difficulty of following Jesus in the sense of leaving everything else behind. While Mark knows of such folk he also extends the sense of what following Jesus can mean: there are those with whom Jesus shares a meal and who host Jesus, eg sinners and taxcollectors, there are those, esp. women, who “serve” him (diakonein). Of none of these a following of Jesus seems to be demanded in the way that Simon and Andrew are asked to do.
Following Jesus. Fellowship with Jesus. Followship ...
I hope these fragments are helpful to some of you. Thanks to contributors, I often consume more than contribute.
DW in Northumbria, UK
Date: 22 Jan 2000
Time: 14:22:24
JG in WI
Here's my outline for this Sunday, preaching this passage.
OUR PLACE IN REVIVAL
I. THE CRY (14-15) A. Repent 1. Not just a matter of turning from sin 2. Includes a turning TO righteousness; the very character of God B. Believe in the good news 1. John's baptism - repentance and forgiveness 2. The good news - forgiveness is available C. This is our message to a world that is sick in sin II. THE CALL (16-20) A. Jesus Calls Disciples to Follow Him B. Following Jesus Like "follow the leader" - do whatever the leader does I plan to use the story from Norman Vincent Peale offered by Gary in New Bern (19 January 2000, 22:08:33) III. THE COMMISSION (17) A. If We Follow, HE Will Make Us Fishers of Men B. We Follow, He Empowers Jesus has a message which He CRIES out. He CALLS people to follow Him. By doing so, they are COMMISSIONED by Him to be fishers of men. The degree to which you are following Jesus can reasonably be demonstrated by how much fishing for men you find yourself doing.
- That's it. Hope you can make some use of it.
Date: 22 Jan 2000
Time: 15:20:51
I am thankful for the hymnal address - http://tch.simplenet.com/ It is extremely helpful. I wonder whether there is some other site which includes more modern titles like songs from the St Louis Jesuits, Weston Priory Monks, Joncas, Landry, etc ... I would appreciate any light on this matter. PC - malta
Date: 22 Jan 2000
Time: 16:54:49
I guess I do believe that Jesus called the sons of Zebedee to leave. They did not have an obligation to him as a parent does to their children. There is no indication of them being married, so presumably there is no obligation to other family members either.
Jesus made it clear that discipleship was more important than family ties. The demands of discipleship in Matthew 10 don't sound like gentle Jesus, meek and mild. I enjoyed Yancey's "The Jesus I never knew" because Jesus became more real. Jesus was demanding.
So when Jesus said "Follow me," I figure that the plain sense of the words are the best understanding. James and John left. And for a period of time, they seemed to be with Jesus instead of just fishing.
Chris in W VA
Date: 22 Jan 2000
Time: 20:38:20
It is late in the day, but it seems to me that this passage is the prologue for our Lord's healing ministry ... the first act of healing is forgiveness, the removing of the wall of separation between God and Man. Certainly if you are using the Jeremiah reading this is very helpful ... we cannot be called to be disciples until we have been raised from a world that has made too many demands on us, enslaving us in its grip and drawing us other places than the shadow of Christ.
tom in ga
Date: 22 Jan 2000
Time: 21:45:16
I'm not near my commentaries, but... doesn,t "immediately" as used by Mark mean something other than "doing something right now?" Perhaps it may also mean that something may happen suddenly or unexpectedly, as a thief comming in the night. Just a question we ought to consider. SL in IL.
Date: 22 Jan 2000
Time: 22:57:32
Discipleship: Is it blind faith or obedient mentoring
Date: 23 Jan 2000
Time: 04:40:29
RevMar: Sorry, I didn't come back online till now. But in case you're also on the West coast and didn't find the song, I'll print some. I think it is legal to quote from a song but not reprint without permission. Someday they'll tell us what you can put online. I found the song in the Gather hymnal (2nd ed.) by GIA (Chicago).
1. Come with me, come wander, come welcome the world Where strangers might smile or where stones may be hurled; Come leave what you cling to, lay down what you clutch And find, with hands empty, that hearts can hold much.
Refrain: Sing hey for the carpenter leaving his tools, Sing hey for the pharisees leaving their rules, Sing hey for the fishermen leaving their nets, Sing hey for the people who leave their regrets.
2. Come walk in my comp’ny, come sleep by my side, Come savor a lifestyle with nothing to hide; Come sit at my table and eat with my friends, Discovering that love which the world never ends.
Both the lyrics and the lovely Scottish tune are by John Bell of the Iona Community.
copyright, 1987 GIA publications, Ic. agent. All rights reserved.
The Gather hymnal is worth checking out.
pHil