Date: 20 Nov 1999
Time: 19:54:39
A decree went out ..... from the Emperor Augustus
Another type of decree went out ... from a multitude of the heavenly hosts, praising God, and saying ...
The first decree is filled with emptiness and duty; the second decree is filled with joy and praise. Those who didn't even count (the shepherds) responded to the second proclamation; they weren't even invited to share in the first.
"The first shall be last and the last first."
The shepherds become the first to hear the good news of our Lord's birth. The world is busy being enrolled in the 2000 census.
tom in ga
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 22:36:17
Emperor Augustus had a nickname "saviour" or "saviour of the world", in contrast to the real Saviour that was born
Date: 12 Dec 1999
Time: 18:57:19
As we enter the new millennium .. what does the birth story tell us ... what is the meaning of this time, how are we to embrace this tender birth in a stable .... what does our own vulnerablity have to do with the way we celebrate?
Did the last century, last decade, prepare us for the future which is coming? If so how, if not, what then???
tom in ga
Date: 14 Dec 1999
Time: 22:31:51
How does one really preach the Christmas story. It kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it? Or maybe one must preach the Christmas story by preaching the cross and the resurrection. A baby was born, its who that baby became that is important. Its the saving act of the resurrection that is the reason the birth is still celebrated 2000 years later. Kelly in Alberta
Date: 14 Dec 1999
Time: 23:22:59
We are recalling birth stories of Jesus, with virgin births, stables and camels 2,000 years after the story.... in Biblical versions which have been eblazened on our minds and hearts since we were children...from worship services to school plays...the story line is clear.
If we were dependent on the factual, literal truth of those stories, we wouldn't be on the internet, brainstorming, faith-dancing about this season, ...because the stories are not factual, literal absolutes ...no affirmations of virgin births, with eastern stars and " No-Vacancy " neon signs at the Bethlehem Motels.... BUT
We are on the internet because there is a truth underneath the literal truth. That's the focus for me this Advent. What is the significance of the stories, why do I return to Advent ...year after year with a fresh anticipation?
I have never gotten an absolute resolution to this season EXCEPT when people told me that the acceptance of the Christmas story ...as it unfolded to the Resurrection story... would give me a ticket to " heaven "-through the Pearly Gates eternal life.
That year, in the 1960's , I took the story literally because I was afraid of Hell. My Fear of Hell hasn't been as long-lasting as my faith in Goodness.
...I wouldn't return to Advent, re-freshed or exhausted, if some events during the interim, for me, didn't draw me to the observance. Sometimes, I'm refreshed in December. Sometimes, I'm exhausted.... but every Advent meets me where I am.
I have been asking questions of those stories and experiencing the answers.... all of my life.
With more than a golden aniversery of time with those questions, I have concluded that I will not be able to have a concrete answer.
The Creation of the earth is a mystery. The development of the human species is a mystery.
Our understanding of the Sacred is as diverse as my imagination can conceive.
Maybe we, all...each... interpret the Sacred according to our own, individual experiences. Maybe, the Sacred, God, the One from the begining of time, the Other, is truly like a parent to those of us who are still children, and is is wise enough to be with children where we are.
I am positive that I am not molding the Image of God to my particularity. The years have made me faithful that God is particular to every minutia of creation, including me.
I thank God for another Advent... fresh as my first...actually, probably fresher because I have the experience of a lot of Advents coming into this one.
I also know that I have consistently experienced the presence of God in each one. Kairos
Date: 17 Dec 1999
Time: 15:25:40
Tom in Ga. Thank-you for a fresh look at the decree! I am wondering what exactly it was that Mary was pondering in her heart. Who and what will my child be? Can I raise a child to be the messiah? Desperate preachers-what do you think? Another question- In verse 14- Whom does God favor? Vs. 10 Says "I am bringing you good news of great joy for ALL the people: Hmmm. Just some questions. Hope I see some postings giving me some insight! Preachnit in Ks.
Date: 17 Dec 1999
Time: 16:21:15
HI Preachnit in Kansas. Thank you for raising the question about what Mary is pondering. I have been waiting for some discussion on the topic (didn't think to add my own two cents!) Anyway, that is the topic of my Christmas Eve meditation. What was Mary pondering in her heart?
I think she was pondering a number of things - What the angel had told her about the conception - what the angel had told Joseph in his dream (assuming of course that Joseph shared this dream with Mary) - What the shepherds told her about their message from the angel - What her own sense of "Messiah" was, if this was as prevalent a notion as we are led to believe - How impossible it would be that Jesus was the Messiah, given the lowly beginning in a stable - how her situation "fit" several Old Testament prophecies (if she were learned at all, or if Joseph was and shared them with her - I am thinking of famous Isaiah passages about a virgin giving birth to a child - and a child will be given, Wonderful Counselor, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, also a Micah passage)
All mothers dream about how "wonderful" and special their children will be after giving birth. But I think Mary had more than her share of indications that something special was up. I wonder if she noticed the star?
Just some thoughts. I'd love to hear more ideas.
Jude in Wash.
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 00:36:29
I plan to use this passage on Christmas eve. Many will be a part of this candlelight communion service that are visiting family. The trip to church falls into their Christmas tradition as much as dinner and presents. But many, though "home for Christmas," will be far from a spiritual center, far from the recognition of the eternal that is active within them. How are they brought home? Amy Grant has a beautiful song, "Far From Home" that includes a verse of "Away in a Manger." The Christmas story in Luke mentions a lot of people who are far from home. Mary and Joseph in a stable in Bethlehem, not at home in Nazereth; shepherds tending their flocks in the fields, not at home with their families; later, wise men traveling from their homes afar. The first Christmas did not invite people home, but invited those far from home to rejoice in the mystery of God leaving home to find a world that was drifting further away. The only person in the story that seems to be at home was the inn keeper, and he was so secure and comfortable in his good fortune that he missed the good news of the birth altogether. Being far from home may be a prerequsite to finding our center in the eternal Christ. Not until we find the emptiness, can we have a place to invite the Christ to dwell. This is the beginning. Would wonder what stories, thoughts others might have on this focus.
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 05:49:14
In response to the statement and question: "But many, though 'home for Christmas,' will be far from a spiritual center, far from the recognition of the eternal that is active within them. How are they brought home?", I have this thought...
While on their spiritual journey through Advent how many times do they ask (in so many words), "Are we there yet?" Why can't we sing our Christmas carols yet? Why do you hide the Baby Jesus? When will you put him in the manger? Why aren't the magi at the manger scene yet? Why did you put them in the back window? You've heard them. Each one asking in their own way: "Are we there yet?"
And each time you reply, "No. Not yet." And to their "Whys", you reply: "Because...(insert long theological and exegetical explanation using layman terms)." ex. "We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus until December 25. It's only December 2...yada, yada, yada."
I guess that our job is to help them along that journey. Only instead of AAA Triptix...the word of God will have to show them the way. Instead of stopping at McDonald's for a feast in a box to go...we make them sit down, listen, think, serve them communion, and give them anything but God in a box to go. Instead of games that entertain...we give them mission, and we give them opportunities to build community.
Somewhere there is a sermon title lurking...How far from Bethlehem? Maybe. It's late Sunday evening, but Friday is fast approaching.
Somewhere (on a link from this site) I found another site...about fishing (of the theological sort). A couple of thoughts hit home for me: How can you be a midwife tonight? and Let the labors begin!
Being a new mom this year, those really caught my attention. Let the labors begin! Believe me I've been in labor all of Advent getting ready for the birth of Christ. Wondering what to say.
So, as I continue to labor, to all of you: Welcome to Labor and Delivery!!!
Karen in Missouri
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 12:37:14
I want to start the week with a message of thanks to Nailbender & Gary in Bern for last weeks postings.
Did Mary say yes?
Eventually I arrived at the position, of where is choice in the spiritual journey we take with Christ? Like revup, I preached on the wrestle we have in accepting God's will for us. We think we choose! The reality is, we do little if anything to determine our own destiny, other than respond to the circumstances God's creation lays out for us.
Now the child is born! What responses confront us now?
Christmas is not a time for me of nice platitudes, but contains much about the challenge of contemplating a human being in full starkness of what that moment means. Like an idea forming in the mind, it requires nurture and discipline until it becomes a conscious truth. And the paradox is unbalanced until it reaches its full potential. In that moment of birth, life and death become painfully obvious.
Christ as we know is the fullness of God's intent for mankind. Jesus becomes the first-born, true, unblemished child of God. If we are to believe Luke's gospel, then our redemption is complete at the birth of the child.
But we know that isn't so, because their still has to come the cross. Christmas raises an interesting theological wrestle for me then. Is the all powerful God toying with us, through the thirty years of Jesus's life? Why the birth at all? Why put Mary, (and Joseph) through such pain and agony and hardship? Why was such an important event such as the redemption of all mankind made such a vulnerable event as the birth of a 7lb bundle of flesh?
I only seem to reach one conclusion. God had to "experience" his own death in order to appreciate our weakness!!! Pretty morbid Christmas message. Perhaps you will enlighten me further.
I'm sure I will build to joy as the week unfolds.
This really is a very powerful site.
Peace to all from down-under, where its hot and sunny. We're not dreaming of a white Christmas.
KGB
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 15:31:03
In his monologue on Dec. 11th for the Prairie Home Compaion url (http://phc.mpr.org/performances/19991211/)Garrison Keilor states that the reason we tell the story (in many different ways) is because it's a great (if not THE great) story. He says, "It's not about you." Treat yourself to a listen to one of our great story-tellers.
John near Pitts.
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 15:33:13
Opps, sorry. You need to get rid of )Garrison in that url to access the site.
John near Pitts.
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 15:34:30
Here's the correct url: http://phc.mpr.org/performances/19991211/
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 15:45:56
Max Lucado has a wonderful essay entitled "Just a Moment" in his book, *God Came Near*. It's a good one for Christmas Eve! He does a good job of emphasising the humanity of the Incarnation. It's certainly worth a look.
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 15:47:10
Max Lucado has a wonderful essay entitled "Just a Moment" in his book, *God Came Near*. It's a good one for Christmas Eve! He does a good job of emphasising the humanity of the Incarnation. It's certainly worth a look.
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 16:14:39
I wonder, you know. I wonder how it must have been that first Christmas. Oh, I know we have the stories, no doubt. We have the stories of wise men and gold and myrrh and frankincense. We have the stories of angels and shepherds and the gentle animals. The stories of a magnificent unfolding of the divine which cause us to open our mouths in awe and stare wild eyed in disbelief and fear.
What a remarkable thing to be visited by angels. What a remarkable thing to give birth to the divine.
We have the stories. And if you are anything like me, you would agree that it's good that we tell them to one another. It's good that we listen to the stories and hear the sounds of the Christ who comes in the miraculous moment, the sounds of the Christ who comes in the voices of a heavenly host, the sounds of the Christ who comes under the light of a star. It's good that we tell the story in our plays and pageants and special church services. For in the telling we hear the sound of the holy being born into our midst.
But I still wonder, and if you're anything like me, you probably wonder too. For our lives are not usually filled with angelic songs and the journey of kings. Rather our lives are filled with the normality of our human existence. The day to day task of living. The sounds of the metaphorical path on which we all travel. Ours are not the sounds of the miraculous but the sounds of the commonality of life.
And yet, it is here too, in the common occurrence, where the sounds of birth take place, where we might hear the sound of promise. Not in the abundance of the palace, but in the earthy realness of a stable floor. Not basked in the light of the manor, but cloaked in the darkness of a barn. The sound is heard in the cry of a naked child born not into the realm of privilege, power, and possession but into the midst of poverty and rejection.
And if we open ourselves, if we listen not with our ears but with our hearts, we might hear the sound of promise being born in our midst - being born not solely through the joy of wholeness but also, and especially, through the circumstance of the least. Being born into the brokeness of a young mother and her son as they struggle through the reality of cerebral palsy. Being born into the pain of an old woman as she watches her house slowly, but most assuredly, disintegrate around her. Being born into the life of an undocumented refugee as he grapples for just one small sliver of life in the midst of such abundance.
And I wonder, if we too would be willing to sing the servant song of a young virgin, if we too would be willing to embrace the cry of new life born amidst the refuse of the stable, born into the refuse of the world. I wonder if we might suddenly hear the voice of angels.
And I wonder if we might find that they had been there all along.
Shalom my friends & Merry Christmas,
Nail-Bender in NC
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 17:03:12
The Shepherds of Isreal came to appreciate the fullness of time, and from ancient mountains of Pisgah, Sinia, and Horeb, and from the desert of burning sands, and from the floods of baptism and new covenant, they celebrated communion with the birth of the New Adam. Do the Shepherds of the New Covenant today hear the angelic chorus? Do we find in the birth of the New Being the grace by which we are saved? Does Jesus not bear for us the free gift of salvation in his birth? Do not these sacred stories of our saviors birth reveal he has born our death, our rebellion, and our illegitimacy in his birth as the act of amazing saving grace? Do we not become new creations as surely in the celebration of his birth aas we do in the sacrament of his death? The old Jewish grave digger/care-taker in Wilna, Poland in WWII, hiding a Young pregnant Jewish woman in a grace became the midwife helping the young woman give birth...while in the grave. He exclaimed in celebration.."Ahh the messiah at last...for who else but the messiah can be born in a grave"? PaideiaSCO in north ga mts still meditating on the mystery of YHWH who comes by his grace to us in our "common" place! What "spacetime does not belong to our Heavenly Father...even in the darkness of a grave hiding one from the destruction of war?
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 18:17:33
Dear Friends, Here's something I came across in my files today that speaks to me of the "pondering" part of the gospel. I cannot find its source, but thought it was worth passing on. Blessings! Susan in SanPedro
Mary, You heard a voice. You answered “Yes”. Risking shame and disgrace Ridicule and rejection. Still, you said, “Yes”. Yes, to the promise you received from God. Yes, to the birth of a firsborn son. Let your trust be our inspiration, Your faith be our guide, Your hope our course for courage. This we ask in the name of the child you bore The savior of the world Who came through God’s abiding love and your spoken word. Yes. So be it. Amen
Date: 20 Dec 1999
Time: 20:24:00
There are presents under our Christmas tree. There is God's presence in the story of the nativity. Which gift would I rather open? Some days I truly want the presence of God. Other days, I have to admit, I would rather open the boxes of trinkets, tools, or ties than risk what God;s presence brings with it.
During Advent I have been focusing on gifts and what God's presence means in our life. Christmas Eve seems to be a good time to look at the many gifts God gave to the world in addition to the Christ child. For example, God found a young woman who was willing to risk her marriage and reputation to carry give birth to Jesus. God also found a man who would raise the child even though it was not his own at the expense of his pride and reputation. God gave the world angels to announce, wise men to confirm, and shepherds to spread the news. Since those days God has given people, generation after generation, who have been willing to tell the story and state their belief in a virgin birth.
God loves to give and the next thing we know God has given each of us away as a gift to someone else. God has given me to my wife to be a good husband, to my children to be their father, to parents, friends, neighbors, congregation, community, nation, and world. Am I a good gift to these people or am I a poor excuse for a gift? Am I really God's presence to them?
We celebrate Communion at our worship and there is no more clear example of this giving than in the words "The Body of Christ given for you." St Paul claims that we believers ARE the Body of Christ so, in essence, God is giving me to all believers as well as giving all believers to me.
I hope you all find the Presence of God among your gifts this week and into the new year.
Jonesy
Date: 21 Dec 1999
Time: 03:42:54
Regarding Mary's pondering: I find Mary's "pondering of all these things in her heart" to be especially interesting when contrasted to the angel and multitude, who had so much to proclaim and sing about, and the shepherds, who likewise seemed eager to run back and proclaim the good news of the Savior's birth. Even Simeon and Anna have something to say. These other actors had so much to say, but Mary, for whatever reason, is said only to have pondered these things, not gab about them.
Have you ever had an experience that so profoundly affected you that you were left speechless, left only to "ponder" what had happened?
Preacher/lawyer in VA
Date: 21 Dec 1999
Time: 14:29:05
Good point about Mary being the quiet one! I think the Christmas Eve sermon is a chance for the whole congregation to be quiet, including the preacher. Some of us are FINALLY sitting still after much hurry and busyness. Some are simply exhausted. Some have finally given their "performance" of Christmas music, or playing a role for the gathered family. Most have been longing for peace. And here it finally may happen. The music stops. The acolytes stop shifting the props. Everyone is settled in the pews, hymnals and prayer book put in the racks. Can we just breathe?
How long can we just ponder together with no words? There is a mystery here that deserves some silence. Preachers! How can we preach, model silent pondering?
Sara in GR,MI
Date: 21 Dec 1999
Time: 16:30:56
I like the idea of allowing some "quiet" time during the Christmas Eve service. Seems to me we all still need to "ponder" these things in our hearts as we gaze into the manger.
Date: 21 Dec 1999
Time: 17:56:47
To answer Preachnit in Ks. who wrote: Another question- In verse 14- Whom does God favor? Vs. 10 Says "I am bringing you good news of great joy for ALL the people: Hmmm. Just some questions. Hope I see some postings giving me some insight!
I understand that what the angels say is different in even some of the earliest manuscripts. One early manuscript says "Peace on earth to those whom God favors," while another early manuscript says, "Peace on earth, good will to humankind." (Luke 2:14)
Is this peace for only the chosen, the elect? Or is it for all the earth, all of God's good creation? I believe that given the earlier phrase "good news of a great joy which will come to ALL the people," that the peace is for all humankind. If Romans 8:19-23 is to be believed, then also for the whole creation.
Rev Steph in MD
Date: 21 Dec 1999
Time: 19:34:45
Some words from Frederick Buechner about the God of biblical faith who meets us in the Incarnation:
"We believe in God--such as it is, we have faith--because certain things happened to us once and go on happening. We work and goof off, we love and dream, we have wonderful times and awful times, are cruelly hurt and hurt others cruelly, get mad and bored and scared stiff and ache with desire, do all such human things as these, and if our faith is not mainly window dressing or a rabbit's foot or fire insurance, it is because it grows out of precisely this kind of rich human compost. The God of biblical faith is the God who meets us at those moments in which for better or worse we are being most human, most ourselves, and if we lose touch with those moments, if we don't stop from time to time to notice what is happening to us and around us and inside us, we run the tragic risk of losing touch with God too."
--In *Listening to Your Life,* p. 324.
Thanks for the contributions about silence and about being far from home. This is my fourth Christmas in southern California, my fourth Christmas far from home ("home" still being New England), and I'm trying not to lose touch with this human thing, so that I am touched by God in the sadness of far from home.
Doug in Riverside
Date: 22 Dec 1999
Time: 05:04:57
PaideiaSCO in N. Ga. --
Birth from the grave ... life in the shadow of death. Of course! Thank you, my friend, for your powerful offering.
Shalom, Nail-Bender in NC
Date: 22 Dec 1999
Time: 05:37:06
I have never made a contribution to D,P before but i have some thougths i'd like to share. about some things Mary migth have pondered. I remembered when i gave my life to the Lord how scared I was, how my knuckles turned white from holding to the back of the pew. When i went to the alter and repented of my sins and asked the Lord into my life I wasnn't sure i could walk a christian walk, so I asked the Lord to help me nad he did. At first I didn't tell some of my old card playing drinnking buddy's. I just kind of stayed hide for awhile, afraid of what they would say or do to me. As I grew in the Lord's word and faith I started to let more people know that i had given my life to the Lord, and sure enought they made fun of me and I lost most of my old friends. but I found a freind that would never leave me or forsake me. I think Marry had alot of thougths like these and more. of course she pondered all the things that the angle told her and the Holy spirit leaping in Elizibeth. The shepards comming to see Jesus in the manger and the wise men. but they wasn't in to much of a hurry to get back home. instead they went to Egypt, why not go back home? of course this must be done so that the scriptures migth be fulfilled. I fill that she was rejected by her friends and faimly. I'm sure the lord gave her comfort in her times of need, but I know being human we let the flesh get in the way sometimes. How can you compare your conversion with Marry's conception?
parson from W.V
Date: 22 Dec 1999
Time: 10:19:27
Kierkegaard tells a parable about Christmas. Does anyone know where it might be published? CS
Date: 22 Dec 1999
Time: 14:37:08
To Doug in Riverside, Greetings from home.... Vicar Jane in Lenox
Date: 22 Dec 1999
Time: 14:37:23
To Doug in Riverside, Greetings from home.... Vicar Jane in Lenox
Date: 22 Dec 1999
Time: 18:27:28
Looking for some last minute help. I need about a five minute "story" to tell on Christmas Eve that illustrates something about Christmas without sounding like Reader's Digest material - it's in place of the children's sermon. I haven't been able to find anything that doesn't focus on "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" or another quaint, domesticated version of Christmas. Any thoughts?
Much Appreciated,
SS Vicar
Date: 22 Dec 1999
Time: 20:38:10
Thanks everyone for your contributions especially the tip on Garrison Keillor (classic)
A few years ago, I took the time to combine the Christmas Scriptures from the 4 Gospels in what I felt was a logical and meaningful order. I have used it on Christmas Eve many times
I have found the simplicity of allowing "the Story" to tell the story very meaningful to many at our Christmas Eve Communion Services.
the text follows
Merry Christmas
Larry in Oklahoma
The Christmas Story In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. And he came to her and said, “Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!” But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.” And Mary said to the angel, “How shall this be, since I have no husband?” And the angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.”
Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit; and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit; she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins. All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet Isaiah; “Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel, which means God with us.”
In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be enrolled . This was the first enrollment and all went to be enrolled, each to his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. And while they were there, the time came for her to be delivered. And she gave birth to her first born son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.
In that region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with fear. And the angel said to them, “Be no afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people; for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!” When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has make known to us.” And they went with haste, and found Mary and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. Now when Jesus was Born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him.” When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy; and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then opening their treasures,they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh. And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, the departed to their own country by another way.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things[ were made though him and without him was not anything make that we made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Date: 22 Dec 1999
Time: 20:51:23
Response to SS Vicar: A possibility (will take some stretching to go 5 minutes). Some years ago at a hanging of the greens party a little girl named Lauren (only 2 1/2 at the time) always wanted to do a bit more than she was able -- like climbing the ladder! To make a long story short, she finally did put one small ball on the bottom of the tree. Then when we turned the lights off, and lit the tree. We were all silent, except for Lauren, who in her little voice gasped and cried out, "I did that!" A homely little story, but I've told it by way of God on this night of nights touching the earth and saying with a kind of divine delight, "I did that!" Well, if it helps, go ahead and use it. PJ in NJ
Date: 22 Dec 1999
Time: 22:15:37
To SS Vicar: In response to your quest. Got this in an e-mail from someone in my congregtion. Am always dealing with Santa on Christmas Eve. Perhaps this is what you are looking for???
Subject: Fw: Santa vs Jesus
Do you know why Jesus is better than Santa?
Santa lives at the North Pole... Jesus is everywhere.
Santa rides in a sleigh... Jesus rides on the wind and walks on the water.
Santa comes but once a year... Jesus is an ever present help.
Santa fills your stockings with goodies... JESUS supplies all your needs.
Santa comes down your chimney uninvited... JESUS stands at your door and knocks, and then enters your heart when invited.
You have to wait in line to see Santa... JESUS is as close as the mention of His name.
Santa doesn't know your name, all he can say is "Hi little boy or girl, what's your name?"... JESUS knew our name before we did. Not only does He know our name, He knows our address too. He knows our history and future and He even knows how many hairs are on our heads.
Santa has a belly like a bowl full of jelly... JESUS has a heart full of love.
All Santa can offer is HO HO HO... JESUS offers health, help and hope.
Santa says "Better not cry"... JESUS says "Cast all your cares on me for I care for you"
Santa's little helpers make toys... JESUS makes new life, mends wounded hearts, repairs broken homes and builds mansions.
Santa may make you chuckle but... JESUS gives you joy that is your strength.
While Santa puts gifts under your tree... JESUS became our gift and died on a tree.
Its obvious there is really no comparison.
We need to remember WHO Christmas is all about. We need to put Christ back in CHRISTmas, JESUS is still the reason for the season.
Yes, Jesus is better, He is even better than Santa Claus!
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 03:28:08
I'm not comfortable with comparing Jesus and Santa. Just mentioning them together seems . . . trivial. Well, let me put it this way, when children discover that Santa Claus is just a myth/legend, it only takes a short step to then conclude that Jesus is hocus-pocus, too.
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 05:26:53
Thanks for your help, but I think I've found an answer to my own question. Tomie de Paola's story, "The Legend of the Poinsettia." Nice, simple, cloaked in religion, and gives a reasonable explanation as to why we use poinsettias. You can email me (marthame@unidial.com) if you want to get my edited version of it.
Other choices: "The Gift of the Magi" (O. Henry) and "Amahl and the Night Visitors" (Gian Carlo Menotti). There's also a nice book of simple poetry that I picked up: "Bright Star Shining" (Michael Harrison and Christopher Stuart-Clark). All of these strike me as more appopriate and less cutesy. But that's me.
SS Vicar
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 06:06:27
PaideiaSCO in north ga mts:
I am so struck by your story of the grave digger and the pregnant Jewish woman in Poland. I would like to use in it my Christmas Eve sermon. (I am at the moment in bed with the flu and worrying about it...)
Would you post more details about this story, please? Origins, time, etc? I'd really appreciate it.
revshelby on vancouver island
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 13:46:53
A thought or two to add from one of my favorite preachers, Helmut Thielicke:
"The Christmas story, pointing to Jesus' origin in its reserved and modest way, is arranged somewhat like a musical score: its upper and lower lines must be read simultaneously. On the lower cleft are concrete earthly events. there is an over-packed little town to which people stream for the taking of a census. there is a shortage of accommodations with all of its miserable side-effects - exorbitant prices and hearts hardened against the financially weak. There is an expectant mother who will have to go through her difficult hour in a stable and then shortly thereafter flee with her newborn infant because she and the child are threatened with become sacrifices to overall political expediency …. (But) above it, in the upper register, sing the angels; above it heaven is open. Whoever fails to read this upper cleft has not understood the whole score, for both lines harmonize; God comes into our life completely human and near us; nothing human is foreign to him, but nonetheless he breaks in on our life from a totally different realm. Thus there is harmony between the upper and lower lines, and we have a two-part score, with the story of the birth in a manger and the hallelujahs of the angels overhead."
I find this to be a sacramental undersatnding of the nativity, that is, that underneath, on the lower score, is life as we know it - the life that we can see and exeprience. We get up in the morning, we eat, we get dressed, we kiss our wives or husbands good-bye, and go off to work. We spend our days making decisions that, we believe, are really quite meaningless to life as a whole, but do it to provide daily bread for ourselves and our families. Then we come home again, eat, sit down and read the paper and, perhaps watch some television. And somewhere along the way, we wonder what it all has to do with the "big picture," and suspect that our lives, ordinary as they are, mean nothing in the greater scheme of things.
But our baptism tells us something else - that here our lives are hidden in Christ. That the angels that sang overhead on the night of his birth also sing over us, that heaven is open for us as well, and God has a wonderful plan, affixed to "earthly means" - those means being us, as well as the rest of his creation.
The other part of the message is simply that we have a Father like that - who cares enough about His creation that He would go to any length to reconcile it to himself. "For God so loved the world, that He sent His only Son. . . ."
Merry Christmas to all!
Gary in New Bern
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 15:03:06
For RevShelby and others- I first read that story in Paul Tillich's collected sermons The Shaking of the Foundations, page164. He attributes the story to testimony in the Nuremburg War Crime Trials. If you need a copy of this sermon, send me your fax number and I can send a copy to you.
John in N.Ga. <jcroma@mindspring.com>
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 15:07:20
Thank you all for some wonderful insights into the story of Jesus' birth.
To add to Gary in New Bern's image of a Divine Symphony: sometimes the instruments/voices in the upper register drop down into the lower register. At other times the bass instruments ascend into the upper register. The voices mix and blend forming a distinct, new sound. Is this not what we celebrate in the coming of Jesus into the world-the Divine presence on earth, in the midst of the everyday existence of life?
A blessed, holy Christmas to all and a happy, healthy Y2K.
Ken on the Hudson
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 15:11:58
Well, my "pondering" meditation finally came together, thanks to some reflecting by all of you. Mary, the ponderer, the contemplative, who "invited" the Christ into the "Inn" of her soul by all of her "pondering." She opened herself up to receiving the Christ, by taking the time to ponder, to put it all together, to be "awestruck" by it all. "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom," fear meaning "awestruck" more than "frightened."
The Christmas story is like Killner (sp?) says, "the best story ever told." But unlike other great stories, this story is unique because it invites us into the story. We get to be participants if we want to be.
Instead of running around like the shepherds, angels, wise men, announcing, proclaiming, etc., maybe we need to be like Mary, contemplative - pondering what the Light of the World means to us; inviting the Christ into the "castle of our soul," where His illumination is brighter than Bethlehem's star.
If we open ourselves to the emptiness within, we will not discover a void, but a spaciousness that takes the shape of a manger.
Shalom. Jude in Wash.
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 15:51:29
I have been struggling with the phrase " this will be a sign to you" What kind of a sign is a baby in a manger wrapped in swaddling clothes. With the infant mortality rate that must have been in those days, that would not seem like much of a sign of great joy. Babies didn't even get named right away because they might not live. And this one is born under less than optimal circumstances. What kind of a sign is that? And the shepherds just knowingly accept that as a sign- A sign that their salvation has come? That is truly a story of faith, because it is a pitiful sign. I keep thinking of Paul saying Jews demand signs and greeks demand wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified-(another ridiculous symbol of salvation.)
We have read this story too many times and seen too many mangers to really get how small and pitiful the sign is. In another sense the promise of God is so sure that God can promise even in what looks like a hopeless situation-a baby born that should probably not live, that should probably not amount to anything in this world- God can promise great things. I was a nurse before I became a preacher and I have been at some deliveries where I have thought that nothing much good could come. The poverty was too much or the mother too young-the odds too great. Perhaps God had different thoughts. I don't know where I will go with this except that the sign has to be for more than the shepherds. The sign has to be for those listening Christmas eve or it is all an old dead fable. Luther said the most important part of the angels message was "unto you" That the message of salvation is for today, for us.
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 15:52:54
sorry I didn't identify myself. I'm Dana in Johnson City, NY
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 16:09:01
Here's something from Reader's Digest that a parishoner gave me. It is a quote from Max Lucado that might be helpful.........."I've seen you stalking the malls, walking the aisles, searching for that extra-special gift. Stashing away a few dollars a month to buy some lizard-skin boots; staring at a thousand rings to find her the best diamond; staying up all night Christmas Eve, assembling the new bicycle. Why do you do it? So the eyes will pop, the jaw will drop. To hear those words of disbelief: "You did this for me?" And that is why God did it. Next time a sunrise steals your breath or a meadow of flowers leaves you speechless, remain that way. Say nothing, and listen as heaven whispers, "Do you like it? I did it just for you." -The Great House of God (Word)
Peace,
MichaelG. in Ohio
Date: 23 Dec 1999
Time: 20:20:21
SS Vicar-
I used this illustration last year. Cannot tell you where it came from, alas. But perhaps you can use it.
About 4 years ago, two Americans were invited by the Russian Department of Education to teach morals and ethics from the Bible in the public schools. They also taught at a large orphanage. In that orphanage there were about 100 boys and girls who had been abandoned or abused.
It was nearing Christmas, and they told the children the story of Joseph and Mary and Jesus and the Angels and Shepherds and the Magi – for the first time. The children and orphanage staff sat in amazement as they listened. After they finished the story, the children were given simple materials so that each child could make his or her own nativity scene. They used three small pieces of cardboard to make a manger. They tore yellow napkins to make straw. Small squares of flannel were used for the baby's blanket. A doll-like baby was cut from tan felt . As the orphans were busy making their nativity scenes, one of the teachers walked among them to see if they needed any help.
All went well until he came to one table where little Misha sat. Misha was about 6 years old and had finished his project. As the teacher looked at the little boy's manger, he was startled to see not one, but two babies in the manger. Quickly, he called for the translator to ask Misha why there were two babies in the manger. Misha crossed his arms in front of him and began to repeat the Christmas story. The teacher was amazed. For such a young boy, who had only heard the Christmas story once, Misha told the story with great care and detail until he came to the part where Mary put the baby Jesus in the manger. Then Misha started to ad-lib. He made up his own ending to the story.
Misha said, "And when Mary laid the baby in the manger, Jesus looked at me and asked me if I had a place to stay. I told him I have no mamma and I have no papa, so I don't have any place to stay. Then Jesus told me I could stay with him. But I told him I couldn't, because I didn't have a gift to give him like everybody else did. But I wanted to stay with Jesus so much, so I thought about what I had that maybe I could use for a gift. I thought maybe if I kept him warm, that would be a good gift. So I asked Jesus, "If I keep you warm, will that be a good enough gift?" And Jesus told me, "If you keep me warm, that will be the best gift anybody ever gave me." "So I got into the manger, and then Jesus looked at me and he told me I could stay with him---for always."
In a single telling of the birth of Jesus, Misha had found Jesus and claimed him as his own. Misha showed us that it's not what you have in your life, but who you have in your life that counts.
HW in HI
Date: 24 Dec 1999
Time: 00:04:51
Thinking about the "sign" given - of a babe, wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger." Isn't it the miracle of God's grace that he always uses that which is ordinary and even despised by the world to be carriers of His grace. So he also uses ordinary water, bread and wine to both proclaim and deliver to us forgiveness and eternal life. We look at such "signs" and think, "surely it is not possible!" We look for something more expensive, something worthy of carrying so great a salvation. But instead He offers us these poor gifts as carriers of divine grace.
That is the promise, I believe - that even I, poor as I am, am a bearer of Christ. Even my heart, small and unworthy as it is, is a sufficient manger for the Christ Child. It is not the straw that matters, but what is laid in it; not the element, but the Word of promise.
Gary in New Bern
Date: 24 Dec 1999
Time: 02:59:31
I was thinking about the unsigned comment that said something about being far from home was maybe a prerequisite to finding Christ (at homeness spiritualy) I was thinking about that from the standpoint of the farm families that I serve who have deep roots at home on the land, and have a deep faith to match. Although I know we are speaking of spiritual home or afar, I still wondered where that leavs those who have always been "at home."
Date: 24 Dec 1999
Time: 03:00:04
I was thinking about the unsigned comment that said something about being far from home was maybe a prerequisite to finding Christ (at homeness spiritualy) I was thinking about that from the standpoint of the farm families that I serve who have deep roots at home on the land, and have a deep faith to match. Although I know we are speaking of spiritual home or afar, I still wondered where that leavs those who have always been "at home."
Date: 24 Dec 1999
Time: 06:25:32
My approach to this Christmas eve service is to compare how Mary cared for Jesus (think of it, a human, taking care of God!) and extrapolating that to how we care for babies today with how God cares for us.
e.g., the baby monitor to hear the baby's cries and how God uses the "monitor" of prayer to take care of us when we cry out to Him. I will apply this to other baby gear as well.
I am also sending each family home with a strip of cloth (about 6" x 1") to tie to their Christmas tree to remind them of how Mary cared for Jesus and how God cares for us.
Just my $.02
Lou from PA
Date: 24 Dec 1999
Time: 20:33:17
The very people we reject, the very people we condemn, those who stand outside of the religious world, those whom we have defined as bad ... are the very ones the Angels come to - in the night - with Great Joy ....
How do we who are full and satasfied, comfortable in our own sufficiency - hear the Angel's song that unto us, you and me, a child has not only been born, but the presence of God is with us ...
to accept this gift ... is to travel toward my own heart ...
tom in ga
Date: 25 Dec 1999
Time: 04:45:25
SS Vicar-
I used this illustration last year. Cannot tell you where it came from, alas. But perhaps you can use it.
About 4 years ago, two Americans were invited by the Russian Department of Education to teach morals and ethics from the Bible in the public schools. They also taught at a large orphanage. In that orphanage there were about 100 boys and girls who had been abandoned or abused.
It was nearing Christmas, and they told the children the story of Joseph and Mary and Jesus and the Angels and Shepherds and the Magi – for the first time. The children and orphanage staff sat in amazement as they listened. After they finished the story, the children were given simple materials so that each child could make his or her own nativity scene. They used three small pieces of cardboard to make a manger. They tore yellow napkins to make straw. Small squares of flannel were used for the baby's blanket. A doll-like baby was cut from tan felt . As the orphans were busy making their nativity scenes, one of the teachers walked among them to see if they needed any help.
All went well until he came to one table where little Misha sat. Misha was about 6 years old and had finished his project. As the teacher looked at the little boy's manger, he was startled to see not one, but two babies in the manger. Quickly, he called for the translator to ask Misha why there were two babies in the manger. Misha crossed his arms in front of him and began to repeat the Christmas story. The teacher was amazed. For such a young boy, who had only heard the Christmas story once, Misha told the story with great care and detail until he came to the part where Mary put the baby Jesus in the manger. Then Misha started to ad-lib. He made up his own ending to the story.
Misha said, "And when Mary laid the baby in the manger, Jesus looked at me and asked me if I had a place to stay. I told him I have no mamma and I have no papa, so I don't have any place to stay. Then Jesus told me I could stay with him. But I told him I couldn't, because I didn't have a gift to give him like everybody else did. But I wanted to stay with Jesus so much, so I thought about what I had that maybe I could use for a gift. I thought maybe if I kept him warm, that would be a good gift. So I asked Jesus, "If I keep you warm, will that be a good enough gift?" And Jesus told me, "If you keep me warm, that will be the best gift anybody ever gave me." "So I got into the manger, and then Jesus looked at me and he told me I could stay with him---for always."
In a single telling of the birth of Jesus, Misha had found Jesus and claimed him as his own. Misha showed us that it's not what you have in your life, but who you have in your life that counts.
HW in HI