Date: 23 Dec 2002
Time: 06:47:23
"This child is destined for the falling and the rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be opposed so that the inner thoughts of many will be revealed--and a sword will pierce your own soul too."
As I read that verse the life of Jesus we know from the scriptures jumps out at me. If you really think about it the very same thing is still happening. Jesus' way of life is still threatening. His commands are beyond what most people will do. It seems to me that when one decides to follow his call to discipleship the very same thing happens. We are are opposed because in our sharing of Christ inner thoughts are touched and souls are pierced.
Oh how I pray for a miracle that will cause all doubters to have no question of the truth. KB in ks
Date: 23 Dec 2002
Time: 18:25:58
Dear KB in KS, I was with you till the last sentence. Doubt is a part of life. It is inescapable. John the Baptist had some doubts or he would not have sent his disciples to check Jesus out later. His mother and brothers thought he was crazy. His disciples thought he was nuts. The last sentence reads one of two ways. One is that of a prayer to wipe away doubt. The other sounds like you have no doubts. If it were my sermon, and it might well be, I would stick to the line of thought in your first two paragraphs. Indeed, Jesus is making many rise and many fall even as we type. His life is dangerous. It requires faith, thought and action. My couch and cable TV are more accomodating to my flesh.
Other thoughts worth pursuing 1) Jesus family was dirt poor according to the sacrifice. 2) Mary and Joseph went to the temple for "regular" service that turned out to be anything but regular. 3) Simeon and Anna make two witnesses the requirement for testimony in the Law. 4)2:40 begins that mysterious period we know virtually nothing about in Jesus life. Mike in Sunshine, NC
Date: 23 Dec 2002
Time: 18:44:52
Have you ever just went about your business in your routine? Thinking nothing really special about this thing i do. I wonder if that's how Joseph and Mary felt, yes this was a ritual done by their law for newborns. yes, a special ceremony, but routine all parents did this act. Sometimes we truly have no clue about the things we do. What they really mean. We may go about our business seemingly routine. Andf then someone else gets a word that ooo special going on here. I think we can look at God's Promise and Prophecy/ fulfillment and Glory/ salvation. Simeon was given 'a word' from God , a promise, it was fulfilled he knew that, and he knew salvation was here! O.k. now we can liken this to ourselves, God gives us a promise as His Creations, he loves us, His love can be fulfilled in us , we just have to accept it...Salvation!!!! Reflecting on news years and what that means secularly, we can take this message and apply NEW STARTS, NEW THINGS coming, The promise happened, long for the fulfillment and Know your salvation.
Date: 24 Dec 2002
Time: 04:38:58
Luke apparently knows nothing about the time Jesus and his family fled to Egypt to escape the ire of Herod. No kings (wise men) are mentioned. With the melding of the Christmas stories, we often see the wise men at the stable, but some say they may not have arrived until Jesus was almost two years old. If so, this story of the visit to the temple could easily have taken place before the flight to Egypt.
I appreciate the comment about the two witnesses, I hadn't thought of that before.
"What Child Is This" is an obvious hymn to use with Simeon's comments.
With a Christmas service still to come, this text will need more thought after the 25th!
Michelle
Date: 24 Dec 2002
Time: 06:15:54
What a text! Though tempted to focus a message on "don't miss church, you never know who might show up", I look forward to preaching on Simeon and Anna as being in the right place at the right time. That is...God's place in God's time. As I reflect on 25 years of ministry, I can recall countless moments of God placing me in a specific situation and as a humble servant, having the opportunity to minister in the name of Christ. Regretfully, I must confess that I have avoided opportunities that perhaps God had intended for me to proclaim, "my eyes have seen Thy salvation!" The power in this text is the devoutness of both Simeon and Anna. Since they are devout, they await, they seek, they expect, they long, they persevere, they are tenacious in their desire to be at the right place at the right time to declare Christ as Savior. My prayer is for such devoutness. ARMY CH E, Fort Belvoir.
Date: 24 Dec 2002
Time: 07:38:55
I am always intrested in the transilation of names in the bible because often they make a point in the story. Simeon in the Hebrew language means "to hear." It's intresting that Simeon says these words in praise to God, "for my eyes have seen your salvation."
He had heard the Good News from God now he see's the Savior in the flesh. I agree there are points made in this scripture that let the audience know Mary and Joseph were good Jews and fulfilling what was expected for them to do under the Law. I even like how Gentiles and Jews are brought up in the passage as how they will be effected by the Savior, "a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel." Two entirely different reactions.
What stands out to me is that the hearing is now backed up by seeing, the foretold Emmanuel has come. "Simeon blessed them," (Mary and Joseph). Just think what an encouragement that must have been to these faithful servants of God.
So far it looks to me like I will dwell on where each of us are in our understanding of God being with us. Have we heard the Good News and waiting for more evidence? Have we heard and seen the Lord alive among us? (It's interesting that these two witnesses, Simeon and Anna, were waiting at the temple to see the Christ. Holy ground, being connected to the church, is a good place to be looking.) When we know and see Christ with God's faithful servants do we as Simeon does... give them our blessing? (our encouragement) KB in ks
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 05:11:36
We (RC) celebrate the Sunday after Christmas dedicated to the Holy Family.I’ve been doing a lot of reading lately on the effects of moderist and post-modernist philophisophies on how we relate to the world and to God. At present I am rereading Mircea Eliade’s - “The Sacerd and the Profane.” Eliade writes of how religious people relate to the world and attempt to ceate a godly order out of chaos.
Few would doubt that we are living in a time when former patterns of living in the world have broken down. This has made our work as preachers more difficult as there are less points of commonality among the people. Former images and stories don’t relate well as they are not common knowledge and experience anymore. Two areas in life still exist, though both are damaged - the family and the Church.
I thought that I would use this Sunday’s Gospel as a jumping off (or in) point for speaking about the family as a sacred and sacrilizing structure instituted by God as a mirror reflection of the Holy Trinity.
There is a concept in the Catholic circles of the family being the “domestic church.” The reality today is that the family is seldom what it was once. My own children, because of divorce and remarriage, have only visitation rights to some of their children and often have more normal relations with step-children than their own. If everyone lived in the same region it would be easier - but they are throughly modern - the live all over the country.
I see some of this in the Gospel narrative. Jesus, Mary and Joseph are away from home and yet they are able to find connection in 2 old people at the temple. Simeon and Anna are as thrilled to see this child as any doting aunt or uncle. The proclaimations they make are stunning and yet they have the form of the kind of loving remarks that would be made by kin.
There is a need to recenter ourselves in Christ. The world is steadily devolving into chaos. What will come is anyones guess - but it is God who brings order out of the chaos and God will show us the way. It may be that we are at a fullness of time when we can co-act with God as did the handmade of the Lord to birth the Kingdom into the world.
I’m not sure where I’m going to go with this. I just found out that I’ll be preaching this Sunday. Deke in TX - Pace e Bene
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 06:53:59
Last Sunday I preached on Gabriel's visitation to Mary using the title "Pondering Perplexing Pronouncements." Mary pondered what the angel's greeting meant, she pondered the message; and then the scripture for Christmas Eve was the visitation by the shepherds following Jesus' birth. Mary again pondered "these things in her heart."
Here we are again, pondering, pondering, pondering. Imagine yourself as Mary, having old Simeon walk right up as bold as you please, take the newborn Jesus out of her arms (we would have big problems with that today), and after returning his prayer of thanksgiving to God, giving his blessing upon the new family as well as the warning of the sword piercing Mary's side. I am thinking of going with "Still Pondering Perplexing Pronouncements."
Mary and Joseph are carrying out their obligation of taking the child for the purification rites according to Jewish law. I like the comment above regarding you never know who you might meet at Church.
Thanks for letting me put my 2cents worth in. Betty in NCNY
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 08:30:32
Wonderful comments so far. Bless you all for sharing.
Mike in Sunshine, NC, while the Law may not have said this, am I right in having read that a woman's testimony was often not accepted in court? If so, then it is clear that God is above cultural prejudices and shows us the truth. With God, there is no "male or female" in terms of their merits. This may be a prelude to the first witnesses of the resurrection being women.
The unsigned comment about how the supposedly routine can become something new. I'm a fairly "routine" guy pastoring in a fairly routine church in a fairly routine unincorporated burg that Mapquest can't even do right. But God has called, and that makes it new and special.
The idea of the translation of the names is exceptonal. I see a translation for Simeon that not only means "to hear," but also "to harken" - to pay attention. I find Anna meaning "grace" and, as the daughter of Phanuel, "face of God," of the tribe of Asher, meaning "blessed," there is much fodder for thought here. May we all find grace in the blessed face of God!
I don't mean to slight anyone, since all comments have been so worthy of consideration. Thank you all.
JG in WI
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 13:35:05
My question: If Jesus had been born in Nazareth, Mary and Joseph's home town, would they have taken him all the way to Jerusalem to present him in the temple? Or would they have presented him in a synagogue in Nazareth?
Clare in Iowa
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 13:37:28
I'm just thinking that since they were in the proximity of Jerusalem, that might have been a highlight experience for Joseph and Mary to be able to present him there. It is highlight enough experience to present your firstborn child, wherever. But to present him in Jerusalem must have meant something special!
Clare in Iowa
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 13:42:35
Jesus' presentation must have been without his extended family present. That would have been not so good. How often would Mary and Joseph have gone to Jerusalem for the religious feasts?
If Joseph had to go to Bethlehem for his enrollment, would not his parents also have had to go to Bethlehem? Maybe they were there when the baby was born???
Clare in Iowa
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 15:12:42
There's something about the last verse that really grabs me .. "The child grew, and become strong, and filled with wisdom." We live in a world filled with countries and national leaders who have grown and become strong ... but seem totally lacking in wisdom. And, unfortunately, I have to lump our own USA leaders into that. My eyes seem to filling with tears on a regular basis as I have considered (and preached) about the contrast between the Christmas message of peace and joy, and our leaders' messages of war and power. When Rumsfeld announced that we were ready to go to war with N. Korea as well as Iraq (and can Iran be far behind?), I entered a despond that I cannot seem to get out of. My best friend (a reservist chaplain) has been called into active duty and leaves to go overseas in two weeks. I'm afraid I may not see him again.
I'm rambling, I know. But I just had to comment on that last verse ... The child grew and became strong and filled with wisdom. Would that there were more of that in our world! Especially his kind of strength and wisdom!
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 17:55:54
Eric, I too am beside myself with the disonance of our Christmas message and our leaders' apparent looking for a reason for war. But as a new preacher I am unsure of how to preach such a message. I went with my gut feeling of Christmas in the Trenches and used it as an example of the transformative power of God's love, along the lines of your Christmas Eve sermon which I found powerful. I have not heard any direct feedback, but also did not hear and "good sermon" from that night. My older congregation (80% over age 75) take any talk against war personally as a pronouncement against WWII in which they fought. I am humbly looking for help. I am a long-time reader and infrequent poster because I just feel so inadequate but hoping to move beyond my fear and participate more. Linda in NJ
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 19:11:41
Eric in KS - I agree that wisdom is that which all of our world's leaders need most.
Linda in NJ - Rather than taking a stand against war, I prefer to take a stand for peace; that our world can be made safe by peaceful means.
May all God's servants, in their time, be dismissed in peace as Simeon.
JG in WI
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 19:12:23
Linda in NJ,
Perhaps a comment. "I don't want anyone to have to suffer like you and your comrades did in times of war. I hope we can avoid that." But it may be that we can't. I hope if it does happen, it is for more just reasons than for economies of the oil-rich.
MRE
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 19:30:51
Linda in NJ -- I know that feeling... and I know the difficulty of speaking to the WW2 generation, of which my parents were/are a part. My dad fought in France was awarded medals for bravery, for being injured, for exemplary service, etc. What distinguishes that war from our current situation is that then there were clearly defined goals and enemies (Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan) who were the initial aggressors and clearly engaged in evil conduct. In the current situation, we are considering taking the first aggressive actions as "pre-emptive defense" (whatever the h... that means!)
A stand against the US doing what it has never done, i.e., firing the first shot, is not the same as criticizing what our parents did in WW2.
But, as JG has said, the best way to state this is to take a stand for peace, rather than against war. That is the wisdom of Christ. He stood for peace, which the world mistook as weakness.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 21:21:19
Simeon held in his arms the consolation of Israel. He held in his arms the one who brought "not peace, but a sword". He held in his arms the Prince of Peace. He held in his arms a saving thing, a light, a glory. He held in his arms the Christ child.
Could it be that our nation is facing a crisis because of that very Christ child who brings life and hope to humanity? Those who currently conspire against our nation do so because we are NOT of their faith. It is true that our nation is not exclusively Christian. Some will argue that the Christian era in America has passed. Perhaps they are right. Regardless, the reality is that our nation was founded on Christian principles and ideals, that our republic stands on Judeo-Christian values. This is precisely what is abhorred by fundamentalist Muslim groups. The same faith that drove devotees to acts of terror on 9/11 (the first shot) is the same faith that is assembling and hiding weapons of mass destruction while we gather with our families to celebrate Christmas, the birth of the savior. Eric in KS, the first shot was fired 15 months ago and I spent two weeks in the soot-covered halls of the Pentagon finding the remains of its target...our citizens, men, women, and children. Having returned from 6 months in Qatar, Afghanistan, and Pakistan and now sitting in on weekly briefings on the Middle East, I can say with certainty that your way of life and mine are being threatened by those who despise our faith, our people, our nation and all that they stand for. And I speak here not of oil or riches, but freedom and human rights. A state in which common citizens have a voice, a vote, and can elect leadership to enhance quality of life is dangerous to those who believe that divine authority to rule is given to a select few.
There are those who truly believe that they have a diving mandate to destroy our nation because it is, in their minds, godless. And they do possess the capability to inflict tremendous damage to our economy and way of life. The reserve chaplain now deployed and countless other men and women are doing everything they can to insure that we will worship this week in safety and security. And they are doing it with pride and great sacrifice. This posting comes to you, not from a WWII vet, but a vet of Desert Storm, Bosnia, and Operation Enduring Freedom.
As for this text, we dare not preach anything other than Christ and Him crucified. We dare not be any less devoted than Simeon, any less outspoken than Anna who could not contain her joy. I have no crystal ball to predict the outcome of the coming days. I know that the strength of our nation will never lie in its military might, rather in the spiritual fortitude of her people.
My apologies for rambling. It shall not happen again. ARMY CHAPLAIN E, Ft. Belvoir
Date: 26 Dec 2002
Time: 21:37:10
My husband will have just returned from a two month sail across the Atlantic when I preach on this text. I keep coming back to the image of the watchman, or the watch stander on a ship. The job of the watch is to wait on behalf of the others in the crew, to be aware of everything that affects the ship (or in Jerusalem, the city or the temple). A good watcher never sleeps, never gets distracted, never gives in to boredom, and always wakes the others if something out of the ordinary, bad or good, happens. Simeon and Anna are the faithful watchers; the priests in the temple who were going busily to and fro were supposed to be watchers for the consolation of Israel, but they were too busy and distracted by their own importance to see the thing they were waiting for when it was right under their noses. The difference is that the person standing watch on a ship or a city knows when their shift is over, and that someone else will take a turn. Simeon and Anna couldn't have known how long they were to wait, but they were faithful, alert, clear-sighted watchers anyway. Then there is my own waiting. My husband's boat was at the mercy of wind and currents: I had no way of knowing when he would return, and in fact he was two weeks late. Much of the time he was out of communication, so I had no idea how he was doing, or even if he was alive. It is hard to wait when we don't know how long it will be. But as Christians, that is what we have been doing for 2000 years, and what we will be doing until Jesus comes again. There is always the temptation to fill the blank with speculation, but that gets in the way of truly seeing what is, and what is to come when it arrives. When my husband comes home, I will know pretty much what to expect, but when Jesus comes back for us, it won't be the way we expect.
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 07:35:18
Army Chaplain.... I know all too well about the "first shot" (as you put it) of 9/11 ... but that "first shot" - so far as anyone has been able to show - was not fired by Iraq and was not fired by North Korea. And the administration's current efforts are directed toward war with those two countries -- what has happened to the "war on terror" directed against those who did fire that shot? what has happened to the pledge to "get" UBL?
Here is the "wisdom of this age" ... The war we are preparing for with Iraq and North Korea uses someone else's action (al-Qaeda's of 9/11) to excuse a pre-emptive agression by us against the leaders of Iraq and North Korea because the MIGHT have weapons of mass destruction and MIGHT use them.
The wisdom of this Child .. "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt" (Luke 6:29) and "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile." (Matthew 5:38-41)
I don't plan to preach politics, but the wisdom of this Child impacts politics ... I plan to preach his wisdom of peace.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 07:45:49
When I heard last week that the Time Magazine persons of the year were going to be the three women who did the "whistleblowing" in their respective organizations -- FBI, Enron, WorldCom -- it clicked with me that there was some similarity with them and Simeon and Anna. It seems that all these characters had good eyes, and spoke up about what they saw. Certainly, the women's declaration upset their organizations tremendously. They saw the truth and spoke the truth, and the truth rocks boats. Simeon talks about about how this "truth-teller", this baby will rock boats. Indeed, JEsus was the ultimate whistle-blower. The women blew the whistle because they believed it was the best thing and that ultimately their organizations would be better for it. It's more comfortable to hide things (and you get less punished if you stay undecrcover and safe), but more healthy to come clean. The women had a vision that their companies could be better if they responded well to their concerns. Simeon sees a baby, but he has eyes and vision for what the baby will become, which is much more than meets the eye. Another part of my ramblings is that old children's toy, "See 'n' Say." It seems to me that that's what Simeon and Anna, and the Whistleblower women, were about -- See 'N' Say. And the challenge for us is to see -- to boldly not refrain from hiding our heads in the sand or ignoring stuff hoping it will go away -- and to have the courage to say -- to speak up when it is warranted. JEL
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 09:55:12
Linda in NJ,
Glad to hear I'm not the only one with a seriously senior congregation. We had to rail in their grandchildren to have enough to put on even a scant nativity scene. No time to practice, it was take whoever showed up, put them in bathrobes or tinsel halos, and have them walk on at the appropriate time during the reading of Luke 2. Took about two minutes. It is sad to have Christmas and no kids.
But then I read this text and realize that Christmas is for old folks! Maybe this will preach to my Annas and Simeons.
I appreciated the post about watch standers, on ships and city walls. That works, too. I wish the submitter had signed so I could give credit.
I can hear Simeon and Anna singing in the temple, in little chipmunk voices, "I can hardly stand to wait. Please, Christmas, don't be late." Well, maybe you can't hear them. You'd have to be where I am. Maybe you don't want to go there. I still want a hula-hoop. "You know, for the kids." tom in TN(USA)
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 10:57:17
ARMY CHAPLAIN E, Ft. Belvoir and Eric. Thank you for your discussion.
I don't know where I got it, but a few years ago I picked up three questions from this passage. 1. Who Brought us here? 2. Who holds us now? and 3. To what is our life dedicated? For example, who are the people who have brought us to "the temple," who have brought us thus far? Who are the people who hold and bless us now? and, To what goals and causes are our lives dedicated? I think it is a pretty honest use of the passage.
Another thought about this passage is that on the one hand Simeon thought he was going to be able to depart in peace once he saw the promised "Messiah" (according to God's annointing - not people's). But, on the other hand, he had to deal with the fact that he saw in Mary that her heart was going to be broken or pierced. So... why is there often a shadow side to everything? Why does every silver lining have a cloud? Christmas has a shadow side. Receiving a gift has a shadow side. We just got a dog for Christmas, and there is a down side to a dog, even though there is clearly an up side. (There is even a back side). Is there a shadow side to having Jesus? There was for Mary. Could Simeon really now depart fully in peace? How do we deal with the mixed blessings in everything? Brent in Pincher
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 11:48:18
Brent in Pincher,
I hear you. New puppy in our house, too, after losing our dog last spring.
Yes, life always has its shadow side, but, as a good artist can tell you, without some shadow, there is no depth. Without shadow, there would be no need for sunshine. In fact, pure light cannot be stood by humans, but is used as a means of torture.
Without yhe dark side of life, we would not need Jesus. Without the dark side of his suffering, would we accept his sacrifice? More distance to go here...
Michelle
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 13:50:22
i'm thinking of how easy it would have been for both simeon and anna to have overlooked jesus & his family -- they were, after all, just an impoverished family from the hills. you know how we make people invisible to ourselves: miniscule visual details, like old clothes, or messy hair, or weathered faces, and we simply pass them over or tune them out in favor of the more sparkling, beautiful, "productive" people in our congregations. i was relatively unaware of this dynamic until an african-american friend told me how invisible he felt in our divinity school commons room -- how people would walk in, sweep the room with their eyes, consistently pass him over and speak to others all around him. since his revelation, though, i've realized that i unconsciously do it all the time ... even though i'm a person who generally champions the cause of the outcast and impoverished! so ... how natural it would have been for anna and simeon to do the same. or would it? would they have picked up in clues from scripture that god has a preferential option for the poor? would they have known, because they were so in tune with god's spirit, that messiah was indeed likely to come in a stranger's guise, in the form of a needy one? and then i wonder: is it even possible for us to find christ in our wealthy, white, in-crowd church? do i need to say to folks, "if you're looking for jesus, you've come to the wrong place!"? i'd appreciate hearing any insights or thoughts that these questions raise. kay
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 15:00:45
Good comments by all so far... Since I have been working with this scripture I keep coming back to the fact that the pronouncments had little or no effect on anyone but the Holy Family. Seems like news like this should reverberate through the worshiping community. Has this bothered anyone else? Nancy-Wi.
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 17:19:54
I seem to be on a completely different wavelength here. I'm stuck on the widowhood of Anna and HER invisibility. Why Anna? Why a widow? Why was her lineage important?
Widow in both Hebrew and Greek has different meaning than for us. It is not simply a woman whose husband has died, but one who is outside the acceptable social structure. This word means a woman who has no man to care for her. Most likely she was refused by her husband's male relations at his death and had, thus, been without male care and the accompaning family relations for many, many years. That would make her both more free than other women and more vulnerable. It would also make her practically invisible. She would have had no formal kin ties since those were traced through the male relations. A woman in her situation (refused the leverite) would usually return to her father's house.
Asher was a place of discord at this time, and a place often viewed as out of the reach of Jerusalem.
So, a widow, one of the opppressed and vulnerable, from outside the fold recognizes the Christ.
Christ has come, both for the powerful and for the oppressed, both to heal and to break down, both to humble and to encourage. This is the gift of the paradox- the gift of God come to us as a baby.
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 18:31:04
After wrestling with the text I think I will finally settled on something along the lines of the Person, the Purpose, and the Power of each of the two characters of Simeon and Anna.
The personalities are quite ordinary but "righteous and devout" implying godliness inwardly that is manifested in outward piety. One cannot see righteousness but one can see devoutness.
The purpose of both devout worshipers is to await Christ and to proclaim Him to others.
The power comes from the Holy Spirit whom God sends as Simeon and Anna live in daily prayer, fasting, and vigilance. The question facing God's people today is: As persons of God, what is our purpose and from whence comes our power?
Still working this one. Thanks for the postings. ARMY CH E, Ft Belvoir, VA
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 19:26:39
ARMY CH E, Ft Belvoir, VA
Thank you so much for your stories and insights. I will add this principle. Ravi Zacharias was asked the question in the context of terrorism, "What do these people fear?" In other words, what terrifies the terrorists? His answer is that they fear an America that is spiritually strong.
Thank you for your continuing fight to terrify the terroists through a spiritually strong America.
JG in WI
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 19:36:03
Some sermon nuggets from http://twcny.rr.com/lyndale: 1.If you want to know what's going on, ask the people on the fringe, like Simeon, Anna, Wise men, Shepherds, old and young, etc 2.In one year and out the other 3.Father time; old man; infant are all symbols for this time. If a preacher needs an image for this last Sunday of the year, here it is--an old man holding a baby. 4. God put faces on the front of our face so that we would see where we are going and not where we have been 5. Time sneaks up on you like a window on a bug. 6. *You don't leave past and go to present. You draw past into present.7."The other half of Christmas"...the shepherds are gone, wise men have departed, excitement of birth is over, Jesus was circumcised, dedicated, etc, now the second half of Christmas begins!. Just as we shared Christ's light we also share in the responsibility of helping Christ redeem this world.
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 19:57:43
Has anyone been following the news today. It seems that a woman in Florida is claiming that she and her religious (cult for lack of a better term) have cloned a human being (somehow with the help of little green aliens). The woman was very discreet regarding any of the details. She only said that in a few days the world would be given all the proof that such a baby exists.
At the moment, the scientific world is laughing at her because she lacks one very important thing - credibility. But while we wait to hear how the story ends perhaps even the slightest bit of wonder goes through our mind. What if there really is a cloned human being?
It seems to me that Luke has gone out of his way to describe Simeon and Anna so that readers know that the source is credible. In order for hearers to have interest in 'This child is destined for the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be opposed so that inner thoughts of many will be revealed- and a sword will pierce your soul as well' Luke needed to build his case that Simeon was a credible source.
The same is true of Anna as well. We learn that she was a widow and never left the temple. I'm sure many a Jew could relate to a person such as Anna (maybe a grandmother, or aunt). Let's not forget the position that elder women, especially widows, played in Roman times. They were to be taken care of.
My point is that we must first of all buy into the idea that Simeon and Anna are credible sources. I'm sure that for many the idea of God's Son being born as a child on earth would seem as ridiculous as a clone being born with the help of aliens. But Luke fills us all with wonder.
A New Pastor on the Jersey Shore...
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 20:01:23
how do we pronounce Simeon's name? Is it like Simon or Sim-ee-on?
just wondering
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 21:09:49
"how do we pronounce Simeon's name? Is it like Simon or Sim-ee-on?"
The latter ... go here to hear a recording of the pronunciation:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=simeon
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 27 Dec 2002
Time: 22:19:13
I think it is a worthy note that this story is included by Luke to stress the point that Jesus is Jewish. His family go to the temple, like a good Jewish family should. They buy the thank offering/sacrifice. They receive recognition from old and wise Jewish elders. If any Jews were doubting Jesus in the post-crucifixion era, they are being told that wise elders of their faith earlier recognized destiny in him. The message is: have the ears of the Shepherds, the eyes of the Magi, and the eyes of the elders. Recognize God in Jesus. Brent in Pincher
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 05:21:51
a few unconnected (?) thoughts: 1. thanks,someone, for your reflections on the invisibility of anna and for your research and insight about her!
2. thanks, someone, for the notion of "the second half of christmas." does anyone remember the poem (maybe by howard thurman?) that begins, "when the song of the angels is stilled,// when the star in the sky is gone, // when ..... // the work of christmas begins: // ...."
3. i've come back to the question that i often forget to ask, but always need to: what is GOD doing in this text? not what is everyone else doing -- because the good news is always about what god is doing! it seems to me in this case that god is moving through the law that was given long ago (mary & joseph wouldn't be at the temple if it weren't for the law), through the holy spirit that empowers simeon and anna (simeon, at least, wouldn't be there if not for the spirit), and, as usual, through the impoverished/invisible (the holy family and anna). the purpose of god's movement in all these ways is nothing less than the redemption of the entire world, jews and gentiles alike, so that none will be outside the bounds of god's grace. (see the New Interpreter's Bible for more on the law/spirit stuff.) kay
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 05:32:10
found it! - kay
When the song of the angels is stilled When the star in the sky is gone When the kings and princes are home When the shepherds are back with their flocks The work of Christmas begins:
to find the lost to heal the broken to feed the hungry to rebuild the nations to bring peace among the people to make music in the heart. Howard Thurman
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 05:32:16
found it! - kay
When the song of the angels is stilled When the star in the sky is gone When the kings and princes are home When the shepherds are back with their flocks The work of Christmas begins:
to find the lost to heal the broken to feed the hungry to rebuild the nations to bring peace among the people to make music in the heart. Howard Thurman
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 05:34:26
sorry, i hit tab and the site hit submit! let's try again:
When the song of the angels is stilled // When the star in the sky is gone // When the kings and princes are home // When the shepherds are back with their flocks // The work of Christmas begins: // //
to find the lost // to heal the broken // to feed the hungry // to rebuild the nations // to bring peace among the people // to make music in the heart. // Howard Thurman
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 06:40:27
To Whom ever posted the Sermon nugets to be found at http://twcny.it.com/lyndale. I tried to access it and was unable. Is there a secret that we need to know in order to avail ourselves of the information at that site?
Thanks in advance for your response. ca in AR
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 07:27:39
This passage is the only one like it in the Bible, it is unique. Yet it is small and insignificant in comparison to some. It can be and has been overlooked or dismissed by many, and yet here it is again. I live in a small (800) person town in middle Illinois. If you blink it is gone. Yet if you stop and linger, if you see and hear the stories you see it is more than just a small town amoung many other small towns. It is important to take notice of these small things so we can see and hear the truth that is to be aquired from babies. BD in Piper City
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 07:40:30
BD in Piper City, that's a neat thought. I often say, having lived in a few, that small towns are great places to live in, but you wouldn't want to visit. When you pass through, there doesn't seem to be much there. But when you live in them, you meet many wonderful people and experience the richness of the community. Interesting comparison to a less known passage from the Bible. Brent in Pincher
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 08:47:38
Clare in Iowa, back in 1963, when in college and about to accept my first student appointment in the old methodist church, a minister asked me to figure out when Jesus was born. at the time it was a mute question . . .but all these years later, and many biblical course, it is a hard one. I have raised the question concerning all in the upper room at the passover and last supper setting, now you ask about the family traveling to Bethlemham....thansk a lot hahahahaha Great question . . .something to consider and think about, then maybe the extended family would've helped in the delivery. Besides, surely, according to many debates, Mary was also of the house of david and would have required Ann going to Bethlehem as well. Mr. Jackie d. Leigh ohio
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 10:54:11
Dear Deke in Texas: I'd be careful about becoming sel-righteous and 'moralistic' when speaking of family. After all, our understanding of family in the United States at the beginning of the 21st century is very different from the understandings of family in Jesus day, or Abraham's day, or the middle ages or other cultures. We tend to think that a mother, father and children are the "model" family. But, the Bible does not give us a single family constellation as a "model" family- there are single parents, adopted children, multiple spouses, households that include what we call "extended" family, widows who run households, orphans, brothers and sisters living together, there is no single "ideal" family. Family means those who have chosen to be in a covenant relationship of sacrificiallly loving one another... it doesn't have anything to do with biology, or culture. Having just been involved in a major study on family for the Presbyterian Church (USA) I thought you might be interested in thinking about this for your sermon... good luck!
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 14:59:04
12/28/02 Sat. 6:00 EST Help! I'm a desparate preacher (U.M) several hundred miles from home without a Book of Worship -which would be no big thing if I didn't have a wedding to do tomorrow afternoon! Does anyone out there who has the Book of Worship CD Rom have a minute to copy and paste the wedding pages into a word document, attach it to an email and send it to me tonite or tomorrow morning? MY email address is rotachb@aol.com. When I get it, I will write again so others won't waste any time duplicating ther effort.
Thanks to all,
BR (on the road)
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 14:59:38
Thanks for the Thruman Quote, I may use it next week when the kInga are gone! nancy-Wi
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 16:23:37
Thanks for all the insights here today. I am thinking in terms of the question Why Simeon and Anna? as well. And since I lean towards contemplative spirituality, I am wondering about the reason Simeon and Anna were able to recognize Jesus, Mary and Joseph, because they had listening hearts and they were waiting with hopeful expectation. It makes me think of Mary and Martha too, that Mary had chosen what was better, to sit at Jesus' feet. They not only recognize the holy family, but recognize the truth about this baby; that he is not only to bring salvation, but that he will cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and reminding Mary that a sword will pierce her own soul too.
Are we not to listen as well, to be able to tell the signs of the times and to be those who now find the lost, heal the broken, feed the hungry etc.
Just some late thoughts from SusaninWa!
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 17:42:55
Some words from Interpretation Commentary by Fred Craddock that I think is wonderful! " These two aged saints are Israel in miniature, and Israel at it's best: devout, obedient, constant in prayer, led by the Spirit, at home in the temple, longing and hoping for the fulfillment of God's promises. . . Anna and Simeon are a portrait of the Israel that accepted Jesus. Those who rejected him misunderstood their own tradition and therefore were not able to recognize him as the continuation of their own best memory and hope."
Unfortunately, I am so late, it will probably only help people three years from now, when we come back to this passage on the lectionary cycle! :-)
SusaninWa
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 18:35:58
BR--Did you get someone to help you? Do you have access to a UM hymnal? If not, I can attempt to scan the pages or type them into a Word document if this will help.--SR
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 19:25:52
Linda
<<My older congregation (80% over age 75) take any talk against war personally as a pronouncement against WWII in which they fought. I am humbly looking for help. I am a long-time reader and infrequent poster because I just feel so inadequate but hoping to move beyond my fear and participate more. Linda in NJ>>
I think you'll be very surprised if you give person the right context and setting, that they will voice reservations against this war. We support our troops-the men and women- but can oppose the war..just as in vietnam days.
As for the other question by a writer about why mary and joseph went to Jerusalem and not just take jesus to a synagogue in Bethlehem or nazareth? We have to see that there was a BIG difference between synagogue and temple... NO SACRIFICEs took place in synagogues...it was a place of study, reflection, prayer..... while the temple was the ONLY place for sacrifice... the Presentation at the Temple was required, if at all possible.. I'msure there were many throughout the 35 x 75 mile country who couldn't satisfy the expectation.
friardon, elmira,ny
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 19:58:00
Linda
<<My older congregation (80% over age 75) take any talk against war personally as a pronouncement against WWII in which they fought. I am humbly looking for help. I am a long-time reader and infrequent poster because I just feel so inadequate but hoping to move beyond my fear and participate more. Linda in NJ>>
I think you'll be very surprised if you give person the right context and setting, that they will voice reservations against this war. We support our troops-the men and women- but can oppose the war..just as in vietnam days.
As for the other question by a writer about why mary and joseph went to Jerusalem and not just take jesus to a synagogue in Bethlehem or nazareth? We have to see that there was a BIG difference between synagogue and temple... NO SACRIFICEs took place in synagogues...it was a place of study, reflection, prayer..... while the temple was the ONLY place for sacrifice... the Presentation at the Temple was required, if at all possible.. I'msure there were many throughout the 35 x 75 mile country who couldn't satisfy the expectation.
friardon, elmira,ny
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 20:03:43
BR <<12/28/02 Sat. 6:00 EST Help! I'm a desparate preacher (U.M) several hundred miles from home without a Book of Worship -which would be no big thing if I didn't have a wedding to do tomorrow afternoon! Does anyone out there who has the Book of Worship CD Rom have a minute to copy and paste the wedding pages into a word document, attach it to an email and send it to me tonite or tomorrow morning? MY email address is rotachb@aol.com. When I get it, I will write again so others won't waste any time duplicating ther effort.
Thanks to all,
BR (on the road)"
BR... Are you aware that a number of denominational web sites have access to their books of worship and prayer books? go to U Methodist, Episcopal,Church of England, Lutheran of Canada, etc..and your find plenty of resources..
friardon elmira,ny
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 20:13:03
friardon:
Sacrifices were to be made at the temple. But were not presentations / circumcisions done in the local synagogues?
Clare in Iowa
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 20:27:29
Clare:
friardon is right. The presentation would have been done at the Temple because it is much more than simply a circumcision. It is the making of a sacrifice of purificiation (the two pigeons, remember) and also a sacrifice of redemption. Yeshua, as Mary & Joseph's first born, would have been dedicate to God and could by "ransomed" back for a particular sacrifice, which they would make at the Temple. So this could not have been done at the local synagogue.
Date: 28 Dec 2002
Time: 20:39:17
Following up on that last post (which was from me, I forgot to sign it...)
Exodus 13:1-2, 14-15, records the following:
The Lord said to Moses, "Consecrate to me all the first born; whatever is the first to open the womb among the Israelites, both of human beings and animals ,is mine.... When in the future your child asks you, 'What does this mean?' you shall answer, 'By strength of hand the Lord brought us out of Egypt, from the house of slavery. When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the Lord killed all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from human firstborn to the firstborn of animals. Therefore I sacrifice to the Lord every male that first opens the womb; but every firstborn of my sons I redeem'."
So Mary and Joseph came after forty days of purification to the Temple to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, "a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons" (Luke 2:24). The original Old Testament prescription that the firstborn must be consecrated to the service of the Lord was now done by substitution. Num. 18:15-16 provides: "[T]he firstborn of human beings you shall redeem, and the firstborn of unclean beasts you shall redeem. Their redemption price, reckoned from one month of age, you shall fix at five shekels of silver, according to the shekel of the sanctuary (that is, twenty gerahs)."
Again, this could only be done at the Temple.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 29 Dec 2002
Time: 06:12:54
SusaninWa! Thanks for the late post. it helped me out this morning. Added a finishing touch. Blessing, Nancy-Wi
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 10:10:25 AM
Well, I guess I am all alone celebrating Candlemas. I better not get too desperate!
tom in ga
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 12:35:48 PM
I preached from this passage in late Decmeber, before rediscovering a children's book that would have worked well..."Keep the Lights Burning, Abby" by Peter and Connie Roop. In the book (based on fact), a lighthouse keeper must leave his post to get food and medicine for his family. A storm separates him from his family for weeks, but he is aware they are alive because he looks across the bay each night and sees the lights in the light house. Give it a read! lkinhc
Date: 1/28/2003
Time: 6:42:21 PM
Interesting that this same passage for the Presentation of Jesus in the Temple in February is the same passage used back in December. Thanks for the helpful insights! I got confused as to the title "Candlemas" under "2 February 2003" then realized the passage is the same one for the Presentation of Jesus at the Temple. I guess we will have a head start for once! Cheerios!-Will in CT.
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 11:26:32 AM
It looks like very few of us will be using this text for Feb 2. Our church also used the same text 6 weeks ago, so I'm struggling for something new.
I've decided to focus on Simeon's and Anna's lives. They model 2 important things for us. First, they hear the voice of God. Then, they wait. They don't try to force God's plan into their time-frame. They know God's word to them, and simply wait until finally it is fulfilled.
I've talked alot about listening for God over the last year at this congregation, but will add the next step: what do we *do* in response to hearing God's word? We may not be called to "make it happen." We may be called to let it unfold--in God's time (kyros), not our own time (chronos).
momma helen+
Date: 1/30/2003
Time: 4:08:55 PM
Responding to Kay,
Can we minister to the wealthy? It's a pertinant question. Jesus and the disciples were dependant on their well to do followers for food and help...(the upper room) Ministering in the US of A is a challenge in that we pastors and employed leaders can quickly get caught up in our comparisons to those we serve and start eyeing their stuff with jealousy especially when it's time to do the budget. I have wrestled with this question as I now serve a farely well healed group of farm families. As Tevyah said in Fiddler...If I were a rich man.... I have seen the spirit in these folks as they take offering after offering for those in desparate need...as they provide food and shelter for local citizens...as they give up their saturdays to work on Habitat projects...As they get excited about using their buildings, and resources to make a difference, not to mention being very serious about their role in helping to feed the world. Do they let their wealth get in the way? Yes....Do we let our wealth and comfort get in the way....Yes...Jesus said wherever 2 or more are gathered in my name. The first commandment says thou shall have no other gods. Is it difficult for those with possessions to forsake God? Of course. Is God in these churches...of course. Do we have much work to do in constantly battling the false gods of TV, Shopping, power, wall street, accumulation addiction and on and on? Yes Yes a thousand times yes! But is God more present in the church with less wealth... Perhaps in the sense that people are more open to letting God be God. But certainly not in the sense that God has abandoned those with means. (He commands the sun to shine on the .......)
It is indeed a dilemma. I often think I should resign and go get a call at the Penitentiary or the Open Door Mission to truly be doing the will of God and serving the poor. But then I look into the faces of the children and youth and elderly and leaders of this church that I have grown to love deeply over these 15 years and I know that ministry happens, that God is alive, that we are all called to serve those in our neighborhood that are forgotten and in need, near and far.
Peace! Long winded in NE
Date: 1/31/2003
Time: 8:08:15 PM
To Tom in GA as well as any reader- so you think you might be the only one using these passages for Candlemas? In the BCP (Episcopalian jargon for The Book of Common Prayer)- on page 16 it states that the Presentation of Jesus at the Temple takes precedence of a Sunday. Thus it turns out this year that the passages for The Presentation is being use on this Sunday instead of the regular Year B's "Fourth Sunday after Epiphany" - of course not all churches are going to follow this BCP rule (I don't particularly emphasize it anyway). My question though is how did the name "Candlemas" get into this Lectionary. I can't seem to find it in the BCP. I finally had to look it up via Search Engine but wonder if you might provide some perspective from experience? What might be the difference, if any, between the identification of this Sunday as being the Presentation of Jesus at the Temple and being Candlemas. Do they both concur at the same time each year? I feel like I'm might be uneducated about this particular Liturgical name of Candlemas. Oh, I guess it really doesn't matter. I'm just asking if people use this name: "Candlemas" in their liturgy and if so, what's the meaning? Sorry if I'm veering off the subject and asking too many trivial questions. Blessings to you all as you prepare to present your sermons - ah! now there's a play on words: "presentation of sermons vs. presentation of Jesus in the Temple". Are we actually giving a true, a honest, a vitalizing presentation of Jesus in our own temples/churches/congregations?? in our lives to other people?? Still rambling as the midnight oil burns... -Will in CT
Date: 2/1/2003
Time: 4:15:03 AM
AS usual, Iam late arriving here. We (UK Anglican) will be celebrating candlemas ... the candle image being to do with the light of Christ.
Simeon says that Jesus will be a light to the Gentiles - the theme of the Epiphany season
So, we will focus on that image of light and have a candlelit procession at the end of the service to symbolise our own going out with the light of Christ.
Also, another tack to take is seeing this festival as being a half way point (roughyl) between Christmas and Holy Week. 40 days after Christmas, we start to leave the Christmas story behind (see the poem that someone posted earlier). We begin to leave Christmas and move towards the temptations, ministry of Jesus, passion cross and resurrection.
It is a time to look back and look forward ... and as always, I like to ask what the reading, and the festival, say about God ... and about Jesus.
What is God like ? God is like a baby ... yes, but God is also like one who challenges us ... and he is also like one who suffers for us ... Mary would experience this herself - 'a sword shall pierce your own soul' and looking even further into the future ... Jesus is destined for the 'rising of many' ...
I see here the incarnation, the cross and the reusrrection, and I may just talk about Jesus and how Jesus shows us what God is like
The one who comes into our midst The one who in the cross reveals the love of God meeting the sin of the world The one who in the resurrection reveals that there is hope in the most desperate of situations
Rev Ev in Bev UK
Date: 4/19/2003
Time: 10:34:32 PM
bnbvjngh
Date: 26 Jan 2003
Time: 11:32:26
2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; this man was righteous and devout, looking forward to the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit rested on him. Wise old Simeon, looking forward .... I think of those within my parish close to death who eagerly look forward to dying. Something hard to imagine. But those who have lived faithful and happy lives seem to be more ready than those who hold in their hearts regrets, etc. This "looking forward" is something that all of us are invited to do. We focus so much on the immediate, the necessary, that we see nothng beyond, hope dies and is forgotten. Here Simeon and Anna represent ourselves, living with the promise (of Christ) and awaiting fulfillment (life in Christ). To wait and to hope is to make concrete that which is promised and now .... my eyes have seen your salvation ... tom in ga