Date: 02 Jan 2001
Time: 15:25:56
To get started, I read some of the previous discussion. There was a lot about bringing the outside (secular world) to the inside (Church) and someone who considered how to unite the church with an "apathetic" culture. My question, as one who is serving a euphemistically-named "redevloping congregation," how do we bring life to an apathetic church???? This is coming at a time when our church is getting ready for a day of prayer and fasting to ask God's guidance in our ministry. I'm at the beginning of conceiving a ministry link between our own efforts and God's revelation. Ideally, of course, our efforts are a product of God's revelation, but we all know how difficult this is to put to practice!!! And it's not going to come out of a church that remains spiritually apathetic no matter how hard we work. I'd better stop before my frustration gets the better of me! :o)
revo
Date: 02 Jan 2001
Time: 15:29:29
OK, my question is clearer now. You might say I had an epiphany (groan).
How do we unite light and life with an apathetic church? "As in "light and (in?) life to all he brings, giv'n with healing in his wings"
revo
Date: 30 Dec 2001
Time: 15:13:04
Avery Brooks (who played Hawk on the old "Spencer" series and Commander Sisko on "Deep Space Nine") does a commercial-I don't remember who for-in which he defines "Epiphany." He goes through a list of experiences and after each one he says "That is an epiphany." (It seems to me like me might also say what isn't an Epiphany). While I don't agree with the definition of the ad writers, I thought it might make an interesting starting point, except I can't remember any of the examples. Does anyone else remember the commercial, or know where I could find a transcript or a summary of it?
Since this is a seasonal question not specifically related to a particular reading, I've posted this at several of the discussions pages for this day.
Blessings,
Lorinda in IA
Date: 31 Dec 2001
Time: 07:09:41
To Revo. It is easier to restrain a fanatic than to ressurrect a corpse. Yesterday I preached to one person at my smaller church usually it's only two.I'm doing what I can to keep it open. You might try 1Corinthians 4:1-2 this weel as I am in both of my churches and remind the people that they made promises that God expects them to keep.
Harold in Alabama
Date: 31 Dec 2001
Time: 08:01:34
The member of a church I used to serve was in the hospital. He had been given some sedation that had made his pulse weak. During the night, a nurse's aide came in to check on him. My friend,who has a lively sense of humor, was actually awake, but kept his eyes closed, pretending to be asleep. In the course of her duties, the aide checked for a pulse, but was unable to find one. Nervously, she got on the intercom to call a nurse, reporting that she thought the patiend had died. The nurse came in and was able to find the pulse. That's when my friend opened his eyes and said, "I'm glad you found it!" Everyone laughed. The nurse asked him why he hadn't revealed to the aide that he was okay. He answered, "She didn't ask me!"
What about us? After an exile, like the Hebrew people, or just in the course of everyday life, are we going to let people think we're dead? Or are we going to see life differently, to share the light, to go home by another road? MTSOfan
Date: 02 Jan 2002
Time: 07:13:17
In its original context, this word was spoken to a people whose apathy had been ripped away, because the impossible was actually happening to them. They were going home! This was the 'light' that had 'come' for them - the proise of hope for the future was becoming a present reality. That is what the birth of Christ is all about. In his coming to us, he made a way for the 'exiles' to come home to the God who made them and loves them. Revo, I would share this news of impossible realities with your people (think I'll share it with MY people!). My most favorite Christmas poem of all ties into this theme.
The House of Christmas
By: G. K. Chesterton
There fared a mother driven forth
Out of an inn to roam;
In the place where she was homeless
All men are at home.
The crazy stable close at hand,
With shaking timber and shifting sand,
Grew a stronger thing to abide and stand
Than the square stones of Rome.
For men are homesick in their homes,
And strangers under the sun,
And they lay on their heads in a foreign land
Whenever the day is done.
Here we have battle and blazing eyes,
And chance and honour and high surprise,
But our homes are under miraculous skies
Where the yule tale was begun.
A Child in a foul stable,
Where the beasts feed and foam;
Only where He was homeless
Are you and I at home;
We have hands that fashion and heads that know,
But our hearts we lost - how long ago!
In a place no chart nor ship can show
Under the sky's dome.
This world is wild as an old wives' tale,
And strange the plain things are,
The earth is enough and the air is enough
For our wonder and our war;
But our rest is as far as the fire-drake swings
And our peace is put in impossible things
Where clashed and thundered unthinkable wings
Round an incredible star.
To an open house in the evening
Home shall men come,
To an older place than Eden
And a taller town than Rome.
To the end of the way of the wandering star,
To the things that cannot be and that are,
To the place where God was homeless
And all men are at home.
To evryone who has longed for the home that their eyes have never seen, the coming of Christ was truly an impossible thing that came to pass, a light shining in the darkness. May ALL our churches see this light and rise up out of the darkness of apathy and fear. Happy New Year All! Ken in WV
Date: 02 Jan 2002
Time: 07:44:39
As Chritians, we have seen something. A light has shone into our darkness. That light is Jesus Christ - as Jesus himself declared - "I am the light of the world." Epiphany is the season when we celebrate the revelation and the manifestation of God in Jesus Christ. Just as the magi came because they had seen the light of the star, so too we have seen this light and we gather together in churches around the world to celebrate God's epiphany among us as Jesus Christ.
The prophet proclaimed to exilic Israel, "Arise, shine; for your light has come." And in these words we realize that gathering is not enough. We also need to go forth and let the light shine from us and throuh us. Epiphany is the season when the church celebrates mission - and as representatives of "outsiders" the magi remind us that the news of God's light (Jesus Christ) must be shared with the entire world. Arise Shine - get off your seats and share Jesus!
What an opportunity to celebrate mission and evangelism. Arise, Shine!
pastor john in CT
Date: 04 Jan 2002
Time: 15:14:14
To revo
I was given a comparable task. I was made interim pastor of a church that was faltering when the pastor left with very little notice. I had no training in the pastorate at all yet God spoke to my heart and told me amazing things I don't want to post here. I want very much to encourage you, but this forum is not the place. My e-mail is TheGraffs@wi.rr.com. What you do with that e-mail address is up to you. You are asking some of the right questions. I trust God will enlighten you with answers you never dreamed.
JGinWI
Date: 05 Jan 2002
Time: 19:01:59
Dear Rev O,
I, along with many others, are in the 'redeveloping' transition of which you speak. This Epiphany I'm particulary focusing on the fearlessness of the Magi - to follow a guiding light, to listen to their dreams and to give much to the Divine potential. This message is one my folks need to hear for we are called to do the same and follow in the steps of the Magi. I'd better get working on the sermon now........it's Saturday night!
Blessings, Revsusan
This sure goes well with the Mat 2:1-12 story. This ancient prophecy illumines and dramatizes it by highlighting the theme of thick darkness pitched against the light (glory) of God. Verse 4 then speaks of an excitement spreading among the people of the world who are not only attracted to the new hope (light), but they even become supporters of the promise and worshipers of God (Verse 6).
The exile is over. Nations that had been our oppressors now see the light. They bring us abundant gifts. What do we think would happen if we brought our own "nations" i.e., non-believers or (gasp) foreigners into our congregations? Is it conceivable to us that these outsiders, if they became insiders, could in fact have something to offer us? Would we be able to recognize their gifts as such? Sy
I think exile would be apropos for this time. As people of faith we are no longer in the center of our culture, but worship on the fringes in our pluralistic society. How do we continue to be the church in the midst of apathetic culture? How do we arise and shine in witnessing to others? SLC
I will use this passage to show how God speaks to us and ask how many of us listen. In Isaiah we are told that they will come from different parts of the world to see the child. In Matt we see it coming true. Today we think that if people do not look like us, thin like us or dress the way we think they should they are not to be allowed to be part of our group of "saved" Yet God told the Hebrew people what would happen and just as today they did not listen. the other question I would ask is are we like the wise men? Do we feel that one night a year is enough? Or are we willing to follow Jesus into exile?
Date: 30 Dec 1999
Time: 23:14:08
I think that this Sunday in particular, people will have Y2K on their minds. I am thinking about using Seatle as an illustration of how darkness was allowed to overcome light. A celebration was planned that would have filled the sky with bright light; yet because of terrorism threats, the celebration was cancelled; darkness won out over light. We need to remember that Y2K is really about Jesus and his reign in the world. How easily it is for the darkness of all that's going on around us to overcome the light of faith that Jesus was,is and always will be. Too many people get caught in the hysteria and paranoia of Y2K. We need to remember that with this passage of time, we celebrate it as a people of faith, trusting in the hope and the promise of Christ, the one true light that darkness can never extinguish. Despite how the world reponds to Y2K, we need to let the light of our faith shine, so that others may see the light of Christ shining through us, all we do and all we say. Some initial thoughts.
MK/Canada
Date: 31 Dec 1999
Time: 19:15:15
Maybe I'm taking Light/Darkness too far, but it seems to me when I put light and darkness together, the light always changes the darkness but you can't make darkness by putting it next to light because the light will always overcome it. If our "light" goes out, perhaps it's because we've turned our eyes to where the dark is and away from the light. The light of Christ will never go out but it's reflection off our lives certainly can be lost. If we want to walk in the light, we have to face the light. -fisherfolk in OH
Date: 01 Jan 2000
Time: 05:36:16
Dear MK in Canada. Sorry to disappoint you about Seattle. The celebration of the lights is going on as scheduled. The only thing canceled was the tens of thousand party goers who were planning to go to the Seattle Center. So...the darkest did not win out over the light - in fact since Seattle was up in arms just a couple of weeks ago because of the World Trade fiasco, everyone in the Light sighed a collective relief that maybe sanity shall reign in Seattle this night! Anyway, it was a good idea, but Seattle will be aglow tonight with lights and with sanity!
Jude in Wash
Date: 01 Jan 2000
Time: 16:50:53
Why am I getting only contributions from 97 and 98? Last night I read this forum and so there should be December 1999 additions here. What happened?
Date: 03 Jan 2003
Time: 13:58:20
Guess its just you and me rich, I'm thinking the same track as you. Our alter will be decorated with torn open presents and wrapping paper crumpeled boxes torn open. I'm kinda taking the "thought that counts" idea. Now that christmas is over and my kids have broken all their toys does that mean christmas is really gone? Is the miricle of the incarnation empty of meaning just cause the presents are all open? In fact its the miricle of the incarnation that causes us to bring the gift of our lives to present to this King. I'll talk about giving all we are to this king that his kingdom would truely come. Then we will each recieve a piece of crumpled wrapping paper as a bookmark or fridge art that reads The love of God never fails.
Mark In SW Washington