Date: 05 Jan 2003
Time: 16:37:56
Both this passage and the gospel deal with having the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Being a member of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), our denomination has never been big on the Holy Spirit. We have a lot of members who stear clear of the HS. I think I would like to preach on what the HS does for us. Any suggestions? I could talk about fruits and gifts, but tthose are sermons in and of themselves. PH in OH
Date: 05 Jan 2003
Time: 18:33:21
the ministry, discipleship begins with baptism in the name of Jesus (the father, son and holy spirit)
Date: 06 Jan 2003
Time: 10:04:38
We respond to God in the best way that we know. These early believers had the insight given them by one of John's disciples. However, Paul showed them a more complete image of God, and they then responded to what he showed them. Do you think that they had been taught John's message by Apollos, or by someone else? -Dale in Chattanooga
Date: 06 Jan 2003
Time: 14:36:45
v. 5 - were they baptized (immersed in water) again, or was the "John" baptism retroactivated as being in the name of Jesus?
I'd like to deal with this, too - UM's aren't any more spirit-driven than Christian Chruch (Disciples of Christ). It's just that I feel like I'd have no idea what I'd be talking about because I've never received the gift of tongues.
That doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit has never visited me! It's just that the only way I'd be able to talk about interacting with the Spirit in this way, I'd have to talk about manifestations other than tongues.
How do you preach something "well, here's what it's about but I've never experienced it?"
Sally in GA
Date: 06 Jan 2003
Time: 20:43:56
Sally:
After I came to Christ in 1985 as a 29-year-old journalist, I ran across a book in the newsroom concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Wanting all that God had to offer, I read it, took it home, and prayed that I would receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
As for my experience, following that event I did pray in tongues, though it was pretty much a private thing. I have not prayed in tongues for some time, though I'm not sure why.
But it was not the tongues that was the greatest thing to come out of that prayer, but the boldness with which I displayed my faith from that point on; the power, if you will, of my witness. And whenever I feel weak in the spirit, I pray that God fills me again with His Holy Spirit.
I feel compelled to preach on this on Sunday -- not necessarily the tongues aspect, but the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I believe it meshes well with the gospel reading and the baptism of Jesus.
By the by: I notice this area is conspicuously absent of posts. I wonder why ... Are we main-streamers (I am in the UMC) afraid of being labeled in some way if we touch on this subject from the pulpit? Or is that we don't understand?
Can a lack of intimacy with the Holy Spirit, an absence of infilling, translate into a lack of power?
Early in the week, but I wonder if God is again revealing something to me about my own ministry ...
PastorBuzz in Tennessee
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 04:05:34
I always refer back to Paul's statement that the gift of tongues was the least of his gifts. This suggests to me the confusion that results when people try to interpret exactly what tongues means, and whether they possess such a gift. To some people the Gospel of Christ is a language they don't understand. Bill from NC
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 04:41:37
Does it have to be all or nothing? It seems that if we're not of the tradition of speaking in tongues, then we tend to avoid the subject of being filled with the Holy Spirit. I realize, "being filled with the Holy Spirit" has a lot of automatic connotations to it, but can we move away from that and think about and preach about what it means to be filled with the Holy Spirit? Or to experience the movement of the Holy Spirit in our lives? I think our parishioners need to realize that they, too, have experienced the Spirit without even realizing it or naming it. I think we need to talk about the many other ways the Spirit is manifest in us, aside from speaking in tongues... I think Paul can certainly help us with that! Just some early thoughts.... PM in PA
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 05:32:04
OK, long post, but since I opened the door, please indulge me a moment.
"Does it have to be all or nothing?" I don't think it has to be all or nothing, or to show evidence of being filled we'd have to pick up deadly snakes and drink poison without it harming us. (Mark 16:20)
"I realize, 'being filled with the Holy Spirit' has a lot of automatic connotations to it, but can we move away from that and think about and preach about what it means to be filled with the Holy Spirit? Or to experience the movement of the Holy Spirit in our lives?"
I think we can, and that is what I am seeking to do this Sunday. I am of the opinion that tongues are not a necessary sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Even though I noted that I had practiced praying in tongues, I do not believe I have the "gift" of tongues. And because of the confusion that can result, that is why I normally steer clear of such discussion except in private settings, such as smal groups. I am leery of approaching it from the pulpit because there is little or no room for any discussion and resulting explanation. Too great an opportunity for misunderstanding.
Personally, I don't place any great importance on the fact that I have prayed in tongues. For me, it has been one of many experiences on my faith journey.
What does it mean to be filled with the Holy Spirit? I, too, am struggling with that. Here are some quotes I've found:
R.A. Torrey, the first president of Moody Bible Institute, says, "the primary purpose of the baptism with the Holy Spirit is efficiency in testimony and service. It has to do rather with gifts for service than with graces of character."
It is power to confirm "the word through the accompanying signs" (Mark 16:20).
It's been said that the the baptism in the Holy Spirit means being immersed in the presence and power of the Holy Spirit. It is power for Christian service and kingdom advancement. The contemporary evangelical theologian J. Rodman Williams says it is called a "baptism" because it "highlights the central fact of being enveloped by, surrounded with, immersed in the presence and power of God."[ It is power to confirm "the word through the accompanying signs" (Mark 16:20).
So, perhaps we need to look for other signs of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Is there saving power in your life? Are you a clear witness for the faith? Is there power in your testimony? Are you praying for the sick? Are you seeking to save those who are lost?
The baptism in the Holy Spirit gives us power to witness for the work of ministry. Charles Finney said it is "the power to prevail with both God and man, the power to fasten saving impressions upon the minds of men."
So, what other signs would you say indicate the evidence of such power?
PastorBuzz in TN
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 05:35:05
Anyone pick up the fact that there are people in Ephesus who had been baptized by John or at least one of his disciples? I thought John's ministry was pretty much a local thing. I'd love to know how these persons came to be baptized by John.
The gift of the Spirit in this case, at least gifts from the Spirit happened when Paul laid hands on them. Elsewhere in Acts, there are people who already have the Spirit and weren't baptized yet. It's very clear in Acts that the growth of the church is the Spirit's thing and there's no formula for passing the Spirit on to people. At least no ONLY this way.
John near Pitts.
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 06:22:01
For me this passage points to the difference, conflict, and a different ministry between John and Jesus. I have always thought that Jesus should be the driver of our faith and not simply the one who 'came before Him'.
Jesus seems to be put into the background especially today as we condemn others for not being like us, or accepting what we belive to be truth and correct truth at that. Jesus to me is more open to others than John was. What can we learn from Jesus, and what can be left behind in John's theology?
Early thoughts. Phil in KS
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 06:51:30
The most basic gift of the Spirit is the gift of the faith to believe Jesus Christ is Lord.
Michelle
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 07:22:59
Although this passage specifically mentions speaking in tongues, this is NOT the only manifestation of the Holy Spirit in baptism. I believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit has much more to do with how the Holy Spirit enters our lives on a daily basis.
Any members of the Society of Friends out there? Or others whose practice is that of baptism of the HS? What does this mean to you?
StudentPastor in KS
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 07:48:49
John near Pittsburgh wonders if John the Baptist had somehow ministered to some Ephesians. I always assumed that it was the case that they had heard, somehow, secondhandedly, the message of John, and had submitted to what he was preaching. I think the point of this passage, at least in the larger schema of Acts and the NT, is to contrast the baptism that John the Baptist preached -- one of repentance -- with the baptism that Jesus offers -- which transmits the Holy Spirit. One of my seminary profs noted that this little group numbered only 12 -- evidence of a lack of Spirit-filled power to witness and grow. Bill from NC repeats the oft heard claim that tongues is the least of the Spirit's gifts. Paul never says that explicitly; it is only an inference from I Corinthians 12. That same passage can be read as Paul simply enumerating gifts, 1,2,3, rather than ranking them in order of priority or importance. Besides, someone once said, even if they are meant as a ranking, what makes you think you deserve anything more than the least important of the Spirit's gifts? Although I have received the gift of tongues, I am not among those who think everyone should receive it or it is somehow normative. What should be normative for Christians is the empowerment of the Holy Spirit for witness and service. That is the promise of our baptism in Christ and we need to claim that. -- Mike in Maryland
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 12:40:17
I have begun to question my wisdom when I thought it was a good idea to preach on this passage. As a United Methodist I find it challenging for a number of reasons. Not only does Paul ask these followers of Christ if they have received the Holy Spirit, he then re-baptizes them. Has he not read official United Methodist doctrine? I could understand if they were not already Christians, but the story clearly states that they are disciples. Did he re-baptize them because John's baptism didn't take? Did John not use the proper words or method? Maybe they just did not completely understand what was happening in their first baptism. For some reason, Paul feels the need to get it right and when he does, the disciples start speaking in tongues. I have witnessed speaking in tongues, but never after I have baptized someone. It would probably scare me to death. I read somewhere that John Calvin hated this passage for some of these very same questions. He was in a battle with the Anabaptists who were re-baptizing adults by immersion because they had been sprinkled as infants. Is anyone else struggling with these issues?
Barry in KS
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 15:03:54
Barry in KS writes:
I could understand if they were not already Christians, but the story clearly states that they are disciples.
What the story does not state is that they were disciples of Christ. There are instances in the New Testament where people are referred to as disciples of someone besides Jesus. In John 9:28 the Pharisees referred to themselves as disciples of Moses. It is a possibility that these men were gathered as disciples, but not of Jesus.
One justification for this view that I have read is this: Romans 8:9 states that if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Just a thought
GC in IL
Date: 07 Jan 2003
Time: 17:52:53
If you read the section immediately preceding this text, you will find that Apollos had eloquently preached Jesus. He, and subsequently these disciples, did not know the Holy Spirit's presence with Jesus. Maybe that's what happens when we focus to narrowly on one 'person' of the Trinity, whether that person be Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.
(Contrary to this text!?!) We need to baptize in the name of the Father AND the Son AND the Holy Spirit, and we need to preach the work of God in all three persons regularly, not only when the texts that come up in the lectionary do not allow us to avoid doing so.
Michelle
Date: 08 Jan 2003
Time: 05:27:46
John's baptism was in preparation of the One who would come. Paul's baptizing of these disciples was a way of saying that the one they were waiting for had come. I don't think this passage is about should they have been re-baptized. My guess is that John's baptism didn't carry the same weight.
John near Pitts.
Date: 08 Jan 2003
Time: 05:28:44
Looks like a good Sunday to use the Reaffirmation of Baptism service in the UM Hymnal this week.
John near Pitts.
Date: 08 Jan 2003
Time: 07:20:32
Pastor John near Pitts and others pick up on the fact that the believers received John's baptism. What the Gospels and Acts try really hard to hide is how extraordinarily popular John's baptism was. That's why more people knew about John than Jesus, and consequently knew about John's baptism. For the church it was somewhat embarrasing that the "announcer" was more famous than the "message". Josephus, in his history of the Jews, talks about John and fails to mention Jesus. (Or he mentions Jesus just once and has a whole section on John -- does anyone have their copy of the indexed Josephus handy?) RevKaren in Ontario
Date: 08 Jan 2003
Time: 07:22:21
The challenge in preaching this text (at least for me) is that there is so much not said. True, it never says that these folks are disciples of Jesus, just disciples, but the implication is that they are followers of Jesus. I have not found any commentaries that suggest otherwise. This passage directly follows the story of Apollos who also knows only the baptism of John, yet there is no reference to another baptism for Apollos. Maybe he didn't need to be baptized in Jesus name because unlike the twelve, he was "fervent in the Spirit" (18:25 RSV). Or maybe Acts doesn't tell us that part of the story. In an old issue of Homiletics the commentary reads, "There is no evidence that all who confessed Christ received baptism in Jesus' name. Apollos is a specific example, but it was also highly likely that many of Jesus' original disciples received only John's baptism. Nowhere do we read of any other followers of John or Jesus receiving re-baptism." I would love to argue that Paul needed to baptize the twelve because John's baptism was inadequate, but I am not sure the text supports that claim.
Barry in KS
Date: 08 Jan 2003
Time: 09:39:43
I must be a renagade UM Pastor, for I embrace the Holy Spirit all the time. I even where my red stole during other seasons to remind me of my earthy partner- the Holy Spirit. To me the Holy Spirit was left as a gift of strength, empowerment to do the work of Jesus Christ. I firmly believe that when we are truely open to the Spirit that things happen because we no longer block God's will but affirm it. The people in the roots of Methodism were not afraid of the power of the Holy Spirit, but embraced it and preached the Gospel in a way that spoke of the promise and hope of Christ. The Spirit is alive and cooking up stuff left and right in this church. Now I shall step down from my soapbox and dance in the flames! Nancy-Wi
Date: 08 Jan 2003
Time: 11:17:15
It warms my heart to find that many of us have chosen to wrestle with this passage this week. I, too, am a UM pastor and have felt in the past that I was...hmmm...not UM material because I have seen the power of the Trinity at work and have felt the HS move: it causes one to believe very deeply. Some of my friends (also UM) struggle with Alpha because of its emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit...and their perception of the congregation's response to opening themselves up to the power of God on the move. I worry about how to address verse 6 of this passage. Why do we struggle so much with the message of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit active in our lives?
The conclusion to which I have come for Sunday is, to borrow a title from Dickens, that because of the Holy Spirit moving among the People of God we can have "Great Expectations" for the future. It's a bit scary to EXPECT God to work in and around us...and to surrender all of ourselves to that power. The more I consider it, the more I think that UM's avoid the topic of the Holy Spirit because it would require us to go where God wants us to go, to do what God wants us to do, when, why and for whom God wants. Hmmmm...we'd have to be ACTIVE like our forbears in the Wesleyan Societies. We'd have to LIVE the faith...which is counter to cultural forces. We would have to be lights. We'd have to be ACCOUNTABLE for our discipleship. I posted the questions from the Oxford Holy Club in our narthex...and got some quizzical looks! Nothing feels so good as complacency. That's not our calling, is it?
Nancy, I, too, will be wearing red this week. A mentor pastor (informal relationship--not the one assigned) tells me often that red is the most under-used color of the Christian year.
May we EXPECT the fire of the Holy Spirit burn in all of God's people.
JMT in AR
Date: 08 Jan 2003
Time: 12:11:26
I'm going to relate this passage to the Baptism of Jesus in this way. I think many modern Christians (especually in my region), misinterpret Christian Baptism AS John's baptism. Baptism is understood as simply being the washing away of our sins. That's what the people were coming to John for. I am surrounded here in Appalachia by denominations which believe that baptism is essential to salvation. Committing your life to Jesus Christ is insufficient without baptism. I have witnessed people being rushed off to the nearest creek, in the dark, immediately following their response to the altar call, so that they would be truly ready to go to heaven!
But Christian baptism, the "baptism of Jesus," is not primarily about forgiveness of sins, although there are allusions to cleansing in most baptism rituals, including the UM ritual. Christian baptism is about being received into the family of faith. It is God's work, not ours, or the pastor's. It is the act whereby God, as he did at Jesus' baptism (!) saying, "This is my beloved son (daughter), with whom I am well pleased." It symbolizes our presence to God, and God's presence IN us. And that, simply, is my intepretation also of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. There's nothing mysterious about it, and no believer should find it frightening, although I know many do. The presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives isn't about what some people see as "acting strange." There certainly isn't a thing wrong with manifestations of the Spirit's power in gifts such as the gift of tongues. No, Paul DOESN'T say the gift of tongues is the least one. What he DOES say is, "I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy."(1 Cor. 14:5a)The indwelling HS IS power, because the HS is God living in us. Without that connection, there can be no power. But the Spirit's greatest power is not in the most attention-drawing gifts - it is the power to live triumphantly in this defeated world. It's the power of joy in dark surroundings. As Paul says, it's the power to witness for Jesus Christ and to share his love for all the world. It's the power to live as the children of God.
So, the disciples in this text were following Jesus having heard only the incomplete story of John's being his forerunner and JC's appearing at the river Jordan. They knew the Savior had come, and were giving intellectual affirmation of the Savior, but they hadn't EXPERIENCED the presence of Christ. That's why what Paul did wasn't re-baptism. They ahd experienced a Jewish purification ritual that ahd been given a radical new context by the last great Jewish prophet. But, they hadn't received Christian baptism, which brings its witness of our being accepted as children of God and the experience of the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Spirit's power.
Last January, on Baptism of the Lord, I had the wonderful experience of baptizing a woman in her 80's! It was one of the most wonderful baptisms I've ever done! She didn't speak in tongues, or turn cartwheels in the aisle, or even holler! But, the joy on her face, and on the faces of the congregation, spoke of the power and presence of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit's indwelling witnesses to us that we no longer live in the old world - everything, including our lives, has become new. THAT'S the baptism of Jesus! Ken in WV
Date: 09 Jan 2003
Time: 07:59:01
I'm Disciples of Christ, but while living in Philadelpia, PA some years ago, I was a part of a UCC/Disciples congregation. I remember on "Baptism of our Lord" Sunday, the pastor came down the aisle slinging water left and right from a pine branch and bucket, as a reaffirmation of our baptism. That would never fly in my parish here in NC, but I never forgot what he did.
Also, Walter Wink's "Powers that Be" is a great resource for thinking about the presence of the Spirit among us as we prepare to preach to our mainline churches. The Spirit is not treated as so strange and other-worldly, but as indwelling all instititions, systems, and persons. He sees everything as containing a "spirit(uality)". My members could hear that and nod in agreement.
EcclesialMan
Date: 09 Jan 2003
Time: 08:29:08
I am UMC Pastor. Also, I think UM's have 'gotten away' from the teaching about the Holy Spirit! I grew up in a rural Church and served as lay employee in city Church, so I have seen all kinds! Methodist Have let themselves become mainstream. I personality like to talk about the Holy Spirit, the fullness and baptism of fire. I have experienced it. On my Walk to Emmaus ( spiritual retreat) Funny, though I had this energy, renewal, and didnt know know what it was, my mother called it "getting saved again" That's where UM Preacher let the people down NO real explanation about it! Oh, yeah, there's that book that Cokesbury has... LOL it's a Joke ACTS 2 is addressed as historical, It's like UM's are afraid to...address it. The best explanation about it comes from Jack Hayford in his book 'Spirit Filled' it explains all the gifts, Sally, not just tongues. UM's are afraid of that term "fall to the power of the Holy Spirit" Old Timers probably call it Being slain. Well, some say that's not biblical. Well, the WORD RAPTURE isn't mentioned either and most rural country methodist believe in the rapture! Falling to power is SUBMSSION to GOD that HE is in TOTAL CONTROL of our bodies, minds and spirit...my opinion ( Gospel according to MAry) Anyhoo, UMC's are in TOTAL DENIAL concerning the Wesley/ Methodists origins! I had this in Theology in United Seminary! MEthodist really have more commons bonds with pentocostal and charismatics than Mainline denominations! I about fell over LOL when I read that! WE ARE??? Jack Hayford, Rod Parsley, Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn, etc have nothing on us...UMC's need this sermon desperately, God grant me the courage and the words to preach it! Pastor Mary in OH
Date: 09 Jan 2003
Time: 10:23:34
We must note that just because these believers experienced "tongues" as a sign does not mean that "tongues" is always THE sign. I was raised in a Pentecostal tradition which teaches this, and due to theological differences on this matter and others, I changed traditions (the United Methodist Church). However, over the past decade, I have begun to appropriate more insights from my background and appreciate much that has shaped me. Like others, I believe that we in so-called "mainline" traditions do not preach and teach enough about the work of the Holy Spirit in believers' lives. The infilling and indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not something that one can "experience without knowing it"--to the contrary, the Holy Spirit is, biblically-speaking, ALWAYS known, accompanied by signs of power and presence. Again, just because it was "tongues" here, the sign can also be many other things--but I agree that people do need help with language of the Spirit's work. And, as others have pointed out, it is not the experience itself that is in view, but the result: power for service, boldness in sharing the gospel.
Even if we grant that the situation in apostolic-age Ephesus was different, I do not believe Paul's question "goes-without-asking." This snapshot apparently had/has on-going importance for evangelism and discipleship. One approach with this text, one I'm considering, is to invite folks to recall their "conversion"--whether that has been dramatic or commonplace or somewhere in between. Then, one could simply repeat the question that Paul asks: "Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?" In any congregation, there are probably some few who would answer, "Yes." One then could invite that/those person/s to talk (briefly) about their spiritual experience--even thinking and asking ahead, if one can anticipate who would speak up. Finally, ask how the power and presence of the Holy Spirit has changed/marked their witness for the cause of Christ. Such conversation would be wonderful setup for a "remembrance of Baptism," even "laying on of hands" and prayer for the infilling/indwelling of God's Spirit for those who so desire it. This may sound strange, unorthodox, controversial, etc.--but I believe that there are congregationally-sensitive ways in most ministry contexts to pull such a thing off.
One word of grace in all this is that, beyond the "laying on" of our hands, we must put the whole enterprise in God's hands. The gift of the Holy Spirit is Jesus' to bestow--as the Father sent the Son, so the Son sends the Spirit. No believer need be without the very power and presence of God's fullness--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. After all, isn't that WHY we baptize in the "full name" of God, anyway?
I invite comments and suggestions here.
TK in OK
Date: 09 Jan 2003
Time: 12:43:23
Whoah! Didn't mean to open up such a can of worms!
Thank you all for contributing; I'd not expected many posts on this.
My intent is to INCLUDE the Holy Spirit without doing so in such a way as to communicate the necessity of speaking in tongues. The closest I ever got to it was interpreting, and for myself, a deep profound silence. 'Round these parts, the very name "Holy Spirit" is loaded. People will bring to it their own agendas and interpretations. Sadly, our mainline response has been to ignore personal theophanies and equally sadly, our more charismatic brothers and sisters counteract this with (in my opinion) over-emphasizing the Holy Spirit.
They were baptized in the name of Jesus (they hadn't been before, so it was not a re-baptism - well, it was, but not in the way we mean today).
I'm focusing (along with Genesis, Mark, and psalm) on God's voice, the the power of God's language, his seal of approval, and how he does visit us in tongues and prophesying.
Also ... while there ARE indeed other manifestations of the spirit, there are only two lsited in this pericope.
Sally in GA
Date: 09 Jan 2003
Time: 12:52:26
The prettiest altar God ever set up by my hands (and it was definitely spirit-led) had about 6 or 7 different shades of red and salmon and orange and metallic gold draped in pieces over the table with two different kinds of red tulle forming flames setting on the table, and red tulle poofing out of the baptismal font. I had 9 different shades of red candles (one for each gift) and as the gifts were listed in the epistle reading (it was Pentecost) an acolyte lit them.
If anyone grumbled, it never reached my ears - not even from the proper police!
We'll be doing a reaffirmation of baptismal vows, but thank you for reminding me to include red - baptism in father son and holy spirit - just like the Scriptures - Creator (Gen), redeemer (Mk), sustainer(Acts).
Sally in GA
Date: 09 Jan 2003
Time: 14:09:51
Sally sometimes the "proper police" are silenced by the power of the Spirit. The arts are a vital part of my ministry. Who said, God had to be somber and staid. Nancy-Wi
Date: 09 Jan 2003
Time: 15:09:14
"Mike in Maryland" has as good a point as any--that the basic point here is to contrast baptism into Jesus/with the Holy Spirit to John's baptism into repentance. We might ask, if John's baptism was good enough for Jesus, then what was wrong with it for others? It's not that John's baptism was second-rate, but that it pointed beyond to "something/Someone greater" to follow--namely, Jesus, who would give the Holy Spirit. Until Jesus, John's baptism was the only way--but on "this side" of salvation history, a new way is possible. It's not so much a choice between a "inferior" or "superior"--or even a choice between "old" and "new" baptisms; rather, being baptized into Christ and with the Holy Spirit is now the ONLY baptism.
I read a great little story from Upper Room which illustrates the point: "At the abbey church of the Benedictine monastery of St. John's in Minnesota is a remarkable wrought-iron figure of John the Baptist . . . During my first winter visit there I walked to the church in a blowing snowstorm. . . . I entered the front door and walked into what seemed like complete darkness. Moving in the darkness cautiously, I backed up and felt a strong finger poke my back. Startled, I whirled around to see a thin, seven-foot-tall figure. 'Who, who are you?' I nearly shouted. Silence. Finally in the dim light, I could make out the bronze-black figure of John the Baptist with his bony finger pointing to the baptistry, his other arm rising toward the ceiling." In Mark's passage for this Sunday, we bump into John the Baptist--his hand raised to heaven, his finger pointing to the baptismal font.
In one of my commentaries (Texts for Preaching, Year B--Walter Brueggemann, et al) it is suggested that, in fact, these followers of John the Baptist had lost their way. They had forgotten that John was at the point of the long parade of history leading up to Jesus.
TK in OK
Date: 10 Jan 2003
Time: 07:19:31
I'm linking this passage to the Psalm passage and I am going to start and end my sermon with the camp thing we used to do where you use your hands rubbing, clapping, and snapping to illustrate a storm. I'm using this to illustrate how when we first experience a storm we are afraid or distracted. We don't allow it to be a sign of God's power. Storms can be reminders of how the HS overcomes us and cannot be controlled. But if we are not open to seeing the HS we may miss it as something dangerous and distracting. Sam in SC
Date: 11 Jan 2003
Time: 04:42:35
I, too, am a renegate UM preacher totally amazed with the power of the Holy Spirit. It's interesting to me how this one short text has brought such a diversity of opinions and concerns about preaching it. I'm going to focus my sermon from this text on how the HS can be a divisive issue (differing opinions, emotions, etc.) and a unifying power. If I remember correctly, one of the main reasons the Church of the Nazarene broke away from the Methodists was the disagreement over the need for a baptism of the HS. And yet God, through the power of the HS, has continued to make both denominations part of what God is blessing in this world. Division/Unification. Love the idea of using the storm experience from Sam. I'll work it in somehow. Maybe the crux of the matter is that the HS led those particular disciples to speak in tongue. Who's to say other disciples manifested their experience with the HS in other ways? The text simply doesn't compare this incident to others. The Methodists understood the power one way; Nazarenes another. "No I do not like your hat. Good bye." "Good bye." (Seuss) peace - bobbie in houston
Date: 11 Jan 2003
Time: 05:48:58
My perspective on this passage is that it's not so much asking which baptism have your experienced but rather what is it that you believe.
Those having John's baptism were looking forward to the One who had already come. Far-sighted if you will. Paul's baptizing was to lead them into the understanding and experience of the One whom John was pointing to.
John near Pitts. (Steeler Victory Today? - Tommy Maddox may be the come-back kid, but I'm still going to wait for Jesus.) <grin>
Date: 11 Jan 2003
Time: 11:16:03
Here's the sermon I've drafted, called "The Life-Changing Spirit." Peace, Dave K. in Ohio <><
The subject of baptism reminds me of a very wonderful, very goofy movie that came out back in the year 2000, one which our family just recently got around to watching. It's called O Brother, Where Art Thou? Maybe some of you have seen it, too. This movie tells the colorful story of three dimwitted prisoners who escape together from the state pen in Depression-era Mississippi and share an adventurous journey in pursuit of freedom, and hidden treasure from an armored car robbery. The escapees are Ulysses Everett McGill, who is played by George Clooney; another fellow named Pete, who always seems to be in a bad mood, and a third guy named Delmar O'Donnell, who is an affable sort. At one point -- as these three not-so-distinguished gentleman continue to evade capture -- they are camped out in a wooded area when suddenly the woods are filled with a white-robed group of men and women, singing a heavenly song, and processing to the river for a mass baptism. Ulysses is a skeptic and starts to ridicule the believers, but while he's still talking Delmar runs down and into the river, and goes to the head of the line to be baptized. As soon as he comes out of the water, Delmar rejoins his friends and proudly proclaims: "Well, that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward." And Ulysses replies, in exasperation: "Delmar, what are you talking about? We've got bigger fish to fry." But Delmar goes on: "The preacher says all my sins is warshed away, including that Piggly Wiggly I knocked over in Yazoo." Everett counters: "I thought you said you was innocent of those charges." And Delmar says: "Well, I was lyin'. And the preacher says that that sin's been warshed away too. Neither God nor man's got nothin' on me now. C'mon in boys, the water is fine." A moment later, much to Ulysses' disgust, Pete runs into the river and is baptized, too. Now I'd like to tell you that this was the beginning of a complete turnaround in their lives, but "O Brother" isn't exactly that kind of story. It is, however, quite a bit like the Bible in that it while it shows the ugly side of humans, it also shows them trying to figure out their relationship with God, and their place in this world. I bring this up only because baptism is the theme of our worship this morning, as we recall the baptism of the Lord Jesus. It is this event that inaugurates our Lord's ministry in all four Gospels. You just heard Jeff read the story as its told in Mark's Gospel. We know that Jesus did not need to baptized for the forgiveness of sins, for Jesus did not commit any sins to forgive. He was the innocent lamb without sin, who would become a perfect sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. Nevertheless, Jesus was baptized in order to identify with us and our humanity. For he was one of us, the Son of Man, fully human . . . just as he also was the Son of God, fully divine. And God the Father used this occasion of baptism to pronounce his blessing upon Jesus, saying: "You are my Son, the Beloved; with you I am well pleased." At that very moment, the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus, landing on him like a dove coming out of the sky. Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit, and received God's power for all that was to come in his earthly journey. You see, Christian baptism is about much more than the washing away of sins. The baptism of John, a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins, was only a sign of things to come. The fiery wilderness prophet was only laying the foundation upon which Jesus would build. John says as much himself, when he says of the One who is coming: "I have baptized you with water; but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." We also heard another account of baptism from the Book of Acts, this one describing events that occurred in the city of Ephesus on one of the Apostle Paul's missionary trips. We have to make a quick adjustment in our frame of reference. By the 19th chapter of Acts, we are well beyond the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. We are well beyond the Holy Spirit's explosion in Jerusalem, which filled the apostles with the heavenly power they needed to spread the Gospel of the Resurrected Christ. We are beyond the conversion of Paul, who went from being a fierce and deadly foe of the believers, to become Christ's most dedicated evangelist. In the 19th chapter of Acts, Paul arrives in the town of Ephesus where he encounters some people vaguely described as "disciples." As it turns out, it's hard to say what kind of disciples they are, because it is evident they do not have proper instruction in the Christian faith. This becomes clear when Paul asks them if they received the Holy Spirit when they became believers. And these Ephesian disciples have no idea what he's talking about -- they had not even heard that there was such a thing as the Holy Spirit. When they explain that they had received John's baptism, Paul gently tells them they have missed what baptism is actually about -- for Christians are baptized into Jesus, to become part of the Body of Christ, and receive power for living as his disciples through the Holy Spirit. On hearing this, they were immediately baptized, and then Paul laid hands upon them, and the Holy Spirit came into them in a powerful way, and they praised God. Paul's baptism of these 12 seekers was not unlike the liturgy we use in United Methodist Church today. We baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And then we immediately follow with the laying on of hands, as the pastor prays for the Holy Spirit to work within the newly baptized Christian, now born of water and the Spirit. There is no baptism without the involvement of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is about what God does in the life of the one who is baptized, through the power of the Spirit. And baptism is just the beginning, whether you are 8 months old, or 18 or 88. Baptism is the beginning of a new life as a member of the Body of Christ, living by the power of the Holy Spirit. In baptism, God changes us. As Delmar and Pete experienced in O Brother, Where Art Thou? -- and as the 12 Ephesian disciples found out when Paul questioned them about their faith -- baptism is about more than being washed clean of our sins, though it does represent our cleansing from sin. But there's more to it than that. Baptism is the act through which God claims us by the Holy Spirit as his own children, initiating and incorporating us into Christ's living body -- the Church. And baptism is not merely something that happened to us way back when -- when we were an infant, or when we came to join the church later in life. Our baptism is relevant to our life today, as disciples of Jesus. Baptism doesn't end with that holy touch of the water -- that is only the beginning -- the beginning of an ongoing, lifelong relationship with God. Baptism is the source of our power for living as faithful disciples of Jesus Christ. Baptism symbolizes our dying with Christ as we are submerged into water (whether by immersion, sprinkling or pouring), and our rising into glorious new life with Christ as we emerge from the baptismal water. When we baptize people into God’s Holy Church, they receive the opportunity to serve a life of ministry as a disciple of Jesus Christ -- as all baptized Christians are called to do. Baptism also brings us into a special relationship with other believers, our brothers and sisters in Christ. It means we are linked together as part of the Body of Christ, and what affects one of us affects all. The Sacrament of Baptism is a powerful expression of God’s love and grace -- amazing grace which we do nothing to merit or deserve. It is the visible sign of God's life-changing love coming alive in our hearts -- a love that never fades away. Paul was surprised when he heard this group from Ephesus speak of having received only John's baptism. He knew they could not be disciples of Jesus Christ, with only the benefit of the Jewish purification ritual that was John's baptism. Listen to how Eugene Peterson tells the story, in his contemporary language Bible, The Message. "... Paul made his down through the mountains, came to Ephesus, and happened on some disciples there. The first thing he said was, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? Did you take God into your mind only, or did you also embrace him with your heart? Did he get inside you?" "We've never even heard of that -- a Holy Spirit? God within us? "How were you baptized then? asked Paul. "In John's baptism." "That explains it," said Paul. "John preached a baptism of radical life change so that people would be ready to receive the One coming after him, who turned out to be Jesus. If you've been baptized in John's baptism, you're ready now for the real thing, for Jesus." . . . And so they were. The work of the life-changing Spirit in an inside job, and it only begins with baptism. God has given us this power and this Spirit for a reason. He has a plan for each one of us to carry his light and love, and the good news of his grace, into the world. The work of the Spirit is ongoing in each baptized Christian, and in the Body of Christ as a whole. If you have not been baptized, and would like to know more about the life of discipleship and about being part of the Body of Christ, please be sure to speak to me after the service today, or let me know. And for those of us already baptized, today we have an opportunity to remember our baptism -- when God claimed us as sons and daughters in a life-long covenant. Remember, and be thankful. If you would like to remember your baptism with thanksgiving -- and recommit yourself to living in the service of Jesus Christ -- then come to the baptismal font this day, in a few moments, during the singing of our closing hymn. Come to the font, put your hand in the water, and with a prayer in your heart, touch the water to your forehead. Perhaps you will want to make the sign of the cross as you do. Or touch the water to your cheek, or rub it on your arms, if you prefer. And if anyone has trouble walking, just lift a hand, and I will bring his living water to you, for the rededication of your heart and life. As we remember the baptism of our Lord Jesus, let us also remember our own baptism this day, and be thankful Let's be thankful that we have received the real thing, and that God's Spirit is alive within us. Amen.
Date: 11 Jan 2003
Time: 13:33:31
Nice idea, Dave K., to have people come forward and put their hand in the baptismal font at the end of the service. I may try that.
Sorry I'm so late here... didn't have time this week to consult with you all. I'm rewriting an old sermon that will focus on the Voice of God (at Jesus' baptism and at creation), and call it "Finding a Voice." I believe that people can speak in tongues, but I'm going to point out that they spoke at all, that they found a voice in baptism.
When God created the world (Genesis passage), the word or voice that created was not a dispassionate word. The spirit of God, the presence of God was already moving over the face of the waters. The word, the voice, is not separated from God's very presence and power.
At Jesus' baptism the voice and spirit come together again. The spirit descended like a dove and a voice from heaven said, "you are my beloved son." And at his baptism, Jesus found his own voice, for that's when he began his public ministry. He began to preach, and people began to listen to him.
In the story from Acts, the people also found a voice. They moved beyond the Baptism of John, the baptism of repentance to receive the Holy Spirit, to become a beloved child of God. When the power of God came upon them they spoke, they found a voice.
I think of people who are afraid to sing in public. I have a friend who stopped singing as a little boy because his older sister heard him singing alone in his room once, and told him he sounded like a cow. He never sang again. He believed his voice was not good enough.
The funny thing about singing is that if you really sing, you can't disconnect the sound of your voice from your very being and presence. When you really sing out, you let your self loose, and we hear, not just the words, but your voice, your very presence coming through. Just like God's voice and presence was one at creation. And at Jesus' baptism.
And when we are baptized, we are given a voice, just like the people in Acts. When we become part of God's family in Christ, we don't need to hold back or hide who we are. We can speak up... even speak in tongues, if that's what the spirit leads us to do.
We will be ordaining and installing officers tomorrow. So I am going to link this with God's call to speak up. We have a lot of people from other cultures in our church who don't always feel empowered to say what they feel. We are actually ordaining someone from Korea, someone from Columbia, and someone from Japan tomorrow. (How exciting!) Two of them in particular are very shy and don't feel they are old or wise enough to speak up. Yet God has called them through the voice of this congregation. I want to somehow affirm that what they have to say is valuable and needed.
Eric Law wrote a book called "The Wolf Shall Dwell with the Lamb" in which he talked about the gift at Pentecost of tongues... not just as the gift of speaking. It actually says that the foreigners heard them speaking in their own tongue. Maybe the gift was also of hearing and understanding. Not sure how to fit that in, but the night is still young...
love you all! DGinNYC