Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 1:12:10 PM
Timothy is reminded of the confession he made at his baptism and of its implications for daily life. His priorities will be different from those of people who merely want to be rich.
The misplacement of trust, from God to wealth, makes an appearance here. This passage is the source of the familiar adage, "the love of money is the root of all evil," a fitting comment on the Lazarus story.
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 1:27:10 PM
Timothy gets warned, and we who count ourselves "people of God" are likewise cautioned, against spending life in a trivial pursuit of wealth. The characteristic naughtiness of the rich: haughtiness (v. 17). Acting superior to others. You don't want to be like that. Huh uh.
If we scratch the surface of the naughty haughty, we find they have "set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches" (v. 17). Mammon becomes the master people cleave to, rather than Christ. "Trapped by many senseless and harmful desires" (v. 9), addicted to stupid and destructive behaviors, "they wander away from the faith" (v. 10). Uh oh.
Did they do it to themselves? Have they "pierced themselves with many pains" (v. 10)? Was it the fault of desires that "plunged them into ruin and destruction" (v. 9)? Perhaps it was simply a case of having both hands otherwise engaged, when "the life that really is life" was offered? Say "all of the above." God, who created a world into which we brought nothing, also demands that we take nothing out. Except by his gift. When this life is over, those who lived for this life are done. Suckered by an illusory hope, they will have only gone around once. Hah!
But there is another who was pierced. Another made the good confession in the presence of Pontius Pilate (v. 13). An other who also, by the way, shunned "all this" (e.g., the love of money, v. 11). He is present now to Timothy (v. 15), and is guarantor by his blood that Timothy (and we) will have a real life. (And look at him now, dwelling in unapproachable light! Rich much!) Christ conquers death, with the mother of all succor punches. Heh, heh!
Timothy and we make the good confession out of hearts that are fixed on nothing so "uncertain" as the physical world (i.e., money, v. 17), but rather on a promise of something more lasting: Life. (The eternal sort.) It's a fight, but a "good fight." The confession is at first a sort of "taking hold" but, finally, a seizing of the right object (vv. 12, 19). Aha!
Out of such a heart, even those who happen in the course of events to be rich in this world can produce something truly rich, if they are generous in providing aid (succor) to others. For if "sin" means to be "curved in on self" (incurvatus in se), those who are godly are curved outward, toward others. "A good foundation for the future" (v. 19) is constructed not by acquiring but by sharing. Ho, ho, ho!
Marcus Felde
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 4:18:48 PM
The sin of "Dives" in the Gospel and of many others who are wealthy is not that they are rich; it is when they (we) become haughty or set their (our) hopes on riches and on ourselves--our ability to get rich and to hold onto riches--instead of on God. Paul counsels contentment with whatever we have, and generosity if we have more than we need to live. Is it fair to understand that Jesus, by his parable of the rich man and Lazarus, is also counseling reliance not on self and wealth, but on God? In Luke 16:15, after all, he states that "what is prized by human beings is an abomination in the sight of God." Reliance on wealth??
Heidi in MN
Date: 9/19/2004
Time: 1:57:53 PM
6:6 - there is great gain in godliness combined with contentment.
Whose gain? I serve a church of very contented godly people and they're dying.
Sally
Date: 9/20/2004
Time: 8:26:51 AM
Amen, Sally, Many are content with their notion of godliness, which fails to see the poor at their doorstep. (Lutheran Lectionary has Amos 6 as First lesson, which says "Alas to those who are at ease in Zion" (content?)
Godliness such as the Pharisees demonstrate in Luke the last few weeks, misses the point. Kind of like the old saying "Cleanliness is next to Godliness". (Where does the Bible say that?) Which implies that anyone who is dirty/poor is ungodly.
Hopefully the world around us makes us uncontent with the way things are, and makes us want to do something to make things better.
Lots of places to "afflict the comfortable" this week.
JRW in OH
Date: 9/21/2004
Time: 11:24:47 AM
We're both pastors - decent income. We have wealthy friends and relatives who buy every new "toy" that comes along. Constantly improving or looking for bigger houses. We consider ourselves blessed with a very nice home (not huge), healthy family, etc. We are content. I have always said there is something to be said for being content with your life and not always striving for more. Now, there are also people who, I suppose, shouldn't be content because they are living in poverty.....musings. Contented
Date: 9/21/2004
Time: 7:23:32 PM
Rich is not bad, materialism is bad. How are we going to counter the on-slaught of materialism on to us today? (My 5 years old boy constantly demand us to buy him things he saw on TV through the kids' channel!)
The answers were presented here: Godliness and contentment. (Is there a Godliness without contentment?) Godliness from the light of this text is the keeping of God's commandments, and if that is being done without gratitude, then we are missing out the contentment part.
I think I will start teaching my boy to count his blessing, to be grateful, to practice contentment in those ways. I need to find ways to encourage him in pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance, gentleness. Perhaps, he will grow up in Godliness and can withstand the coming on-slaught of materialism.
Hey, his name is Timothy! This should be a perfect model for him.
Timmy's dad.
Date: 9/22/2004
Time: 3:16:04 AM
One thing I clearly teach my grandchildren is the difference between wanting something and needing something. We then give several examples... We need air, water, God's love. We want the game on tv, the new cereal, etc. It has really helped them discern what really brings life!
Date: 9/22/2004
Time: 7:25:10 AM
Afflicting the comfortable ... or alienating them altogether?
Guilt-tripping is of no use - as in, "you're a lot more privileged than you think compared to the rest of the world so thank the Lord above and quit being so stingy" and yet, neither is "you're a lot more afflicted than you think, you comfortable people you!"
Rather ... to be all 1980's about it, maybe it's time for the comfortable to get in touch with their afflicted side and thus find some ground to identify with (rather than sympathize) the afflicted.
... this is the treasure of a good foundation for the future ... to take hold of the life that really is life. Not false modesty, or false humility, or cheap grace but the ability to use our own lives to find commonality with others.
food for thought as I munch my hot dogs and relish.
Sally in GA
Date: 9/23/2004
Time: 10:24:52 AM
I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with a guilt trip. I remember hearing a talk about stewardship and tithing. The speaker ended by saying that some of us might be feeling guilty because we're not giving like we should/could but that's okay because there's forgiveness in Jesus. There's forgiveness but once in a while we have to be told what's being forgiven and it just might lead us to changed lives.
Shalom: Tom in Ontario
Date: 9/23/2004
Time: 2:47:06 PM
I would love to see and speak with anyone about this tonight during an online discussion at our churches chat room please come to www.doverplacecc.org/chat and sign in we meet on Thursdays from 7-8:30 central time. I find it is easier for me to see what God wants when I make the connections to the general blessings of God's provision. I do not see the scripture as a prescription against wealth but rather as a prescription against living spiritually poor and therefore inviting the possibility of blindness to the things that are truly "eternally" important. Bill StL.
Date: 9/23/2004
Time: 4:02:37 PM
The love of money, or the money of love; what's in your wallet (to borrow an ad line)? An old saw is "The love in your heart wasn't put there to stay. Love isn't love 'til you give it away." How about this, "The money in your bank wasn't put there to stay. Money ain't love 'til you give it away." tom in TN(USA)
Date: 9/23/2004
Time: 7:11:42 PM
Sally
You serve a church of very contented godly people and they're dying. It's because they content in the wrong thing. The text point to materialism, not just content w/ the status quo.
Coho. (Out til next Mon.)
Date: 9/23/2004
Time: 9:36:59 PM
I appreciate the comment over on the gospel page that says something about true wealth being measured in relationships. I talk pretty often about how we put our trust in the security we create for ourselves, especially with our money. But I don't always flesh that out, and this gives the beginning of a good picture of the choices we make, one way or the other, depending on where our trust is. Placing trust in God, no matter how much money you have, will mean using your gifts to build up relationships, especially with the marginalized.
It's really too late at night for me to be posting at all. Sorry if this is useless.
Laura in TX
Date: 9/24/2004
Time: 1:29:52 PM
"Now, there are also people who, I suppose, shouldn't be content because they are living in poverty.....musings. Contented"
I pray that this was said tongue in cheek. Why shouldn't people who live in poverty be content with their life? I pray that we have not become a world-wide society of middle class Pharisees saying "thank God I am not like that (fill in the blank) over there.
Date: 9/24/2004
Time: 1:32:42 PM
Sorry Bill Jones in Porcupine
Date: 9/24/2004
Time: 2:12:31 PM
"I pray that this was said tongue in cheek. Why shouldn't people who live in poverty be content with their life? I pray that we have not become a world-wide society of middle class Pharisees saying "thank God I am not like that (fill in the blank) over there."
I brought my comments above to my partner and have come to the conclusion that there are different definitions of what "poverty" means. We got into a great protracted discussion over its meaning. My comments are directed to the thesis that one who lives in Poverty" can be content within their family and their surroundings. My partner says that because of the way society is structured that those in "poverty" can not be content because they see the excesses of those around them. I hope we will resolve our discussion prior to turning in for the night or it may be a long night of discussion.
Date: 9/24/2004
Time: 10:50:51 PM
Being content to live in poverty? Is that like being proud of their humility?
Don't let the ability to buy anything you want (with cash or credit) allow you to think you can buy what money cannot afford--life, in this world or the next.
It cannot buy back time that was squandered. It cannot buy more hours in the day. It cannot prevent death.
It can provide comfortable things but cannot provide comfort.
~~Fair Isaac