Date: 18 Jan 2000
Time: 01:17:28
For me, the theological point here is that being loving is more important than being right. (This is a word that is hard for me to hear because I love being right.) I serve a surburban middle-class congregation of "over-acheivers," and we pride ourselves on our education and our achievements. Recently, we've begun to struggle with how to be more welcoming to the newcomers in our immediate neighborhood -- many of whom are working minimum wage jobs, struggling with English as a new language, and are a part of the "invisible poor" in our very affluent county. Is it too much of a stretch to draw a parallel between our "classism" and the pride of those Corinthian Christians who had so much "knowledge?"
Also, I'm looking for a video clip to illustrate that being loving is more important than being right. Any ideas??
Revev in Kansas
Date: 20 Jan 2000
Time: 17:09:27
Revev of Kansas, Many of our UMC's seem to struggle with being right vs. being loving. I'm having trouble seeing that message in this text if we read the whole of Ch. 8. However, your message does have a very strong link to vv 1-3. Maybe I'm not seeing something in the rest of the chapter that is right in front of my eyes! I see more of a connection about what are our "rights" vs what is helpful or hurtful. Comments? revd
Date: 23 Jan 2000
Time: 19:57:09
Reev- I was sharing something about this last week with my co-pastor...not sure where the leading came from. Pastor are afflicted with a particular form of this, for me are persons whith some power and influence....we are able to create things and form things in worship which affect so many others....
what a release when we are able to share that responsibility..
I recall something which Barry of Ohio shared with us last year... somethingsd about control, learning and going with the Spirit Holy
The purpose of getting power is to be able to give it away. --- Aneurin Bevan (1897-1960), British Labour politician Education is what remains when we have forgotten all that we have been taught. --- Sir George Savile, Lord Halifax (1633-1695), English statesman, author When a man's education is finished, he is finished. --- E. A. Filene (1860-1937), American businessman, financier To be great is to be misunderstood. --- Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882), essayist, poet, philosopher That so few now dare to be eccentric marks the chief danger of the time. --- John Stuart Mill (1806-1873), English philosopher, economist When all think alike, then no one is thinking. --- Walter Lippmann (1889-1974), American journalist Conventional people are roused to fury by departure from convention, largely because they regard such departure as a criticism of themselves. --- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970), British philosopher, mathematician, social reformer When a thing ceases to be a subject of controversy, it ceases to be a subject of interest. --- William Hazlitt (1778-1830), English essayist
donhoff, Elmira, NY doanldhoff@aol.com
Date: 24 Jan 2000
Time: 20:50:37
Revev,
I agree -- being loving is more important than being right, according to all the teachings of Jesus. For a long time I debated all the Jehovah's Witnesses who came to the door, and I was good at it. Then one day the Lord asked, "What are you accomplishing with this approach?" I realized that the only thing I was doing was to make them more angry and combative. So I started avoiding the arguments, invited them in for coffee and expressed appreciation for their hard work, doing what they could to please God. This not only shocked them, but it led to much more effective witnessing - and sitting in my kitchen with my cookies in their hands made them a captive audience. I quit debating and just shared simply how Jesus had changed my life. Soon they stopped coming. They knew how to fight, but didn't know how to handle kindness.
Also, I have an alcoholic (grown) son. We soon learned that "not" having wine at family dinners (like Thanksgiving) made no difference to him at all; if he wanted alcohol he got it before coming. So I had the "freedom" to have wine with dinner, but when he's around I will not have a drink. Not because it has any influence on him, but because I love him so much that I will never do anything that even MIGHT have the slightest bad effect on him. Because of love. And that's how I feel about my church members too. I may have the "right" and the maturity to handle anything, but I am a pastor - I love my people, and it would devastate me to think I had done anything to put a stumbling block before any one of them.
This must always be by the leading of the Holy Spirit, I believe, for every situation is different. Part of our job is to help bring believers to maturity, and sometimes they need some waking up. Judgmentalism and always having to "be right" is one of the main signs of spiritual immaturity. Those who deliberately "stumble" sometimes are just using that as an excuse to control the behavior of others. Love must come first, but there is a time to teach freedom by our actions. If I preach this passage Sunday, I will have to find the balance. Revjudy in N.M.
Date: 24 Jan 2000
Time: 23:01:27
"Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." 1 Corinthians 8:1
Such rich imagery Paul employs here. I will be hoping to illumine this text Sunday. Anyone have concrete examples/stories to share in this regard? I will post my stories/musings as they come to me as I work deeper into the week.
Thank you for your companionship in the gospel.
Tom in Chautauqua County, NY
Date: 25 Jan 2000
Time: 16:09:50
Thank you to everyone for your helpful comments. I'm still working with the text, but I thought I would pass along a couple of references from another site that might be useful: 1. An excerpt from Geneva Notes regarding this passage at www.ccel.org/g/genevanotes/1Corinthians8.html "unless our knowledge is tempered with charity, it does not only not avail, but also does much hurt...." 2. A very interesting paper by N.T. Wright on Incarnational Christology for a Church in a Pagan Environment (timely, huh :) ) at www.northpark.edu/sem/exauditu/papers/wright/html
I hope others of you working on this passage will find these as helpful as I did. I especially like Wright's argument that agape Christology offers the church a way to beat paganism at its own game!
Revev in Kansas
Date: 25 Jan 2000
Time: 17:24:05
Revev,
If you prefix your web-site references with they'll appear as links, as in:
http://www.ccel.org/g/genevanotes/1Corinthians8.html and
http://www.northpark.edu/sem/exauditu/papers/wright/html
Rick in Va
Date: 25 Jan 2000
Time: 17:26:21
Although I'm having a problem getting to both site...
Oh well...
Date: 25 Jan 2000
Time: 18:05:06
I think the struggle which Paul is addressing is more than the attitude of "I'm right and you're not". In the church at Corinth the problem has amplified to sound something like "I know I'm right, and you are stupid and inferior for disagreeing with me." After all the meat-eaters are right. There is no other God. The idols of the temples in Corinth are just lifeless, powerless statues. Paul had, himself, taught that there is no special significance to food so there was no need to observe the Jewish food laws. We all know that. So whats the problem? Maybe part of the problem is that at the compromise in Jerusalem they had agreed - Acts 15:28-29 - Don't eat meat sacrificed to idols. The more I think about it the more it sounds like they are haveing a conservative\liberal argument in Corinth. The liberals are saying - come on get enlightened- While the conservatives are saying - why don't you read what scripture says- Paul says to all of them why must you feel superior? Why don't you love each other? Still pondering FISHER IN TN
Date: 28 Jan 2000
Time: 13:23:44
Dear DPSer,
you may have encountered some technical difficulties posting to this forum. I have no clue as to why this forum stopped accepting submission. I hope that I have corrected the problem and posting will now be possible again. Sorry for the inconveniece.
Frank
Date: 28 Jan 2000
Time: 19:12:02
Focusing on V10-13
Our actions may cause another to fall. I am hoping to use examples of how our actions cause not only ourselves to fall but also others. For example: laughing at racial or sexual jokes; making swooping generalizations, remaining silent when our voices need to be heard etc. Does anyone have any examples for me? REV WWM