Date: 3/13/2003
Time: 2:14:22 PM
This is one of my all time favorite passages of scripture as you might tell from my DPS sign off name.
The messages we desperate preachers are called to proclaim is counterintuitive, unAmerican and often times very discomforting. Who, in their right mind, would believe what we proclaim based on rhetoric, reason and explanation? It is foolishness. Christianity can not be Christianity without the cross. It is not a way of thinking or a weekly activity or batch of information. It is way of living -- sacrificial living.
Such a "religion" is not something someone chooses. It chooses you.
Fool For Christ
Date: 3/16/2003
Time: 8:58:12 PM
Fool for Christ,
I agree with you that the messages we desperate preachers are called to proclaim is counterintuitive and often times very discomforting. I would not say "unamerican," however. American means so many different things to so many different people. The American that I am is hopefully not in conflict with the message I am called to proclaim.
Thanks for your posting. This is also one of my favorite passages. I will likely not be focusing on this one, as I have done so often in the past. I intend to focus on the John text this week.
Michelle
Date: 3/17/2003
Time: 10:22:56 AM
The word "unAmerican" in FfC's post caught my eye too. Right now many are wondering whether one must support a war with Iraq in order to be a true American.
I am reminded of one of William Willimon's stories. During our conflict with Libya in the 80's, a small group of Duke University students confronted Willimon or Hauerwas with the dilemma of whether the U.S. should bomb Libya or or let Khadafi continue his terrorist activities. The students did not deem either way to be appropriate response from a Christian. He instead answered as a "foolish Christian," replying that we should send 10,000 missionary paratroopers into Libya to convert the nation.
Didn't St. Francis try something similar with the Turks?
DSS
Date: 3/17/2003
Time: 10:46:42 AM
Why do I keep hearing a song in my head that says, "Upside-down You're Turning Me?" Perhaps because I listen to all kinds of little voices! But perhaps this passage of scripture clearly illustrates how God turned the world upside-down through the wisdom/foolishness, and through the strength/weakness that we see in our Christian message. -Dale in Chattanooga
Date: 3/17/2003
Time: 5:22:28 PM
There was also the Children's Crusade (don't remember which number - have to check my church history book: Pius IV's endeavor, maybe?), which by historical standards was a horrible, tragic failure.
I'd be curious to know what the Arab Muslims in Palestine at the time thought about it - powerful witness or outright folly?
The failure was not due to Muslims by the way. The children were killed, kidnapped and sold by "Christian" agents who were purportedly helping them. The ones who made it as far as Constantinople were never heard from again. All at the hands of thier Christian brethren.
If our call as Christians is to obey the great commandment and fulfill the great commission - What would make a bigger impact on people outside of Christianity: taking "anti-American" regimes by military might, or by showing them love in the face of thier hatred? How would this be acted out?
The world may never know.
That said, being former military, I do know and trust that the troops who are called upon to actually carry out our foreign policy for the most part consider themselves religious and adhere to Christian values - don't believe the hype otherwise. When I was in Kuwait, worship services were attended by 100% of the troops in any given area.
The world, and even our nation, demands a military power to maintain peace. I thank God daily that from the privates to the generals the ones calling the shots have Christain values guiding even their violent premeditations.
Forgive us for that we would not do, but we do. Amen.
Jeff M Panhandle, Texas
Date: 3/18/2003
Time: 1:01:02 PM
http://www.wlu.ca/~wwwsem/dsj/apoca4.html (by my seminary homiletics prof.)
http://www.religion-online.org/cgi-bin/relsearchd.dll/showarticle?item_id=1288 (by William Willimon)
http://wwwstaff.murdoch.edu.au/~loader/BEpLent3.htm (by William Loader)
http://www.crossings.org/theology/theolo318.htm (by Lori A. Cornell)
Shalom
Date: 3/19/2003
Time: 7:08:40 PM
In seminary, back in the Dark Ages, I was lucky enough to experience Peter Paul and Mary in concert. Paul Stookey sang this wonderful song that speaks to this text. I've always loved the song and its words. It's titled "April Fool": Noel Stookey and Stu Davis ©1981 Neworld Media Music Publishers
April Fool You wear your heart on your sleeve And though they laugh when they leave You call it Love and I believe (you)
April Fool Why must you always play the clown? You have the edge you laid it down You give it up without a sound...
Oh April Fool How can the say "love is cruel"? They catch the ring but drop the jewel. Like a teardrop in a pool...
April Fool As the heart shows through the eyes Before you were born you were recognized And unto the losers comes their Prize.
Oh April Fool Even as the hands were washed, you knew We'd free the thief instead of you April Fool You said the Father was in You You said we know not what we do Forgive us...April Fool.
The line, "And unto the losers comes their Prize." is especially appropriate in reference to this lesson. Ken in WV
Date: 3/19/2003
Time: 11:34:44 PM
All great civilizations have their time. They rise and fall, overtaken by a more dynamic force or moral imperative. In this Corinthian reading we confront this meeting of 'Goliath'(Greek and Roman culture) with 'David'the fledgling christian message of a crucified God. Despite the greatness of the dominant Greco-Roman culture in Corinth, Corinth also was known for its moral decadence .... perhaps selfish indulgence and intellectual pride. Its easy for me to see some parallels with western culture as it sits proudly at the top of the social and economic order in the world today; strangely western culture still has buried deep within its heart the same 'crucified God'. It causes me to ask, how this crucified God would address us as we try to maintain our position in the world..... or perhaps that's the problem ! Perhaps the real issue is the imperitive for us to use our position to ensure the rest of the world does NOT bear the only signs of Christ's suffering through poverty and disease etc etc. while we take every opportunity to avoid suffering. Can we continue to remain strong, without this orientation !??? Peter Bradley Melb. Australia
Date: 3/20/2003
Time: 3:02:58 PM
Concerning the word, UnAmerican; could we not say un-social, un-cultural. Someone had mentioned Willimon who has collaborated with Stanley Hauerwas on several books. To proclaim the cross as wisdom is certainly of another kingdom, not found in any political institution of which I am aware.
HSUDCM (First time contributor)
Date: 3/21/2003
Time: 12:07:33 PM
What is God's foolishness in light of a human-made war? Do we really have a voice in deciding whether or not to go to war? Maybe even the debate about whether or not this is a just war is missing the point. I wonder if the foolishness of God is that we are called to leave warmongering to the government and reach out instead in love to those in the midst of strife, the poor, the oppressed, the widows, and the orphans. I wonder if our call as Christians is not to either support or oppose the war but to love those caught in the middle from the children and spouses of soldiers to the civilians in the battle zone.
Pondering God's foolishness and my wisdom (or lack thereof) in NC
Kirk
Date: 3/21/2003
Time: 2:42:33 PM
It was Karl Barth who once declared that preachers should address their people "with a newspaper in one hand and the Bible in the other." If ever a Sunday in recent memory encouraged such an action, this Sunday is it.
Nearly every paper in the country during these days (and probably Sunday AM, as well) contains images which pay tribute to military might. To hold up such images alongside Paul's tribute to the "way of the cross" would speak volumes with very few words by the preacher.
I'm thinking of doing this very thing, and perhaps tying it in to our tendency to "cheer" for one side or the other--whether in games (NCAA basketball tourney) or wars (current conflict with Iraq)--hoping "our side" is stronger and smarter than the other. (See comments under John reading.)
Paul invites us to consider how seemingly puny and foolish is the "message of the cross" from an earthly perspective, but how timeless and sturdy, strong and wise it is when all other powers fail.
Here is a great opportunity for (especially American) Christians to ask just what stock we truly put in the "message of the cross."
TK in OK
Date: 3/21/2003
Time: 5:56:07 PM
TK in OK -
What a marvelous image! I can see the headlines being held up while someone reads the text. Perhaps off on the side of the pulpit, a person reads the paper, puffs up some muscle and mimes a scoff at the reader. A liturgical mime. Must digest this thought some more. Thanks for the images!
katinPA
Date: 3/21/2003
Time: 9:18:16 PM
TK om OK--
Thanks for your thoughts on March Madness. What a wonderful fit that is--our desire to be on the winning side. The tack I'm taking is to say that if we pray about the war in order to listen, in order to meet Jesus, we will find him crucified, suffering, through no fault of his own. And by that way he is the power and wisdom of God.
Whatever else is true about this conflict we're involved in, we as Christians have got to take the suffering of innocents very, very seriously.
I can feel a rant coming on, so I'll end here. Thanks for the hook.
LM in SouthTX
Date: 3/22/2003
Time: 9:52:55 AM
More on "March Madness"--this will work well for the "narrative" preachers out there--and something like it is probably where I'm going.
There are four tie-ins with "March Madness" and one can play off those connections in many ways: (1) the traditional basketball tourney, which gets trumped by... (2) a new "March madness"--namely the current warfare, with its feelings of anger on all sides the fact that is makes some sense to some and no sense to others (3) Jesus' "righteous anger" expressed in the Temple court, a sign of Jesus' ultimate authority over the "Temples" of our world (church, home, nation, personal lives) (4) the apparent insanity and impotence of the "message of the cross"--which contrasts to the images of strength and truth portrayed so vividly on ESPN and CNN as we switch back and forth from tourney to warfare
And finally, the point of all this is to seek our sources of sanity and security in the only power and wisdom which will finally be left standing when "time shall be no more": the Word of God we have heard in scripture and known in Jesus
(Also, there can be made connections with the OT readings, which say, in part that true sanity and clarity, true strength and security are God's gift to us in the revelation of God's guidance--"law" or "torah"--if one wants to use all the readings).
TK in OK
Date: 3/22/2003
Time: 8:04:53 PM
"... the ones calling the shots have Christain values guiding even their violent premeditations."
What?
kbc in sc
2000-2002 Discussions:
Date: 20 Mar 2000
Time: 17:08:38
Rick and Sheepdog,
Can we not preach the Word using our intellect and wisdom? We are called to do so. God's wisdom is supreme, yet each of us has been given some measure of it in order to present the Good News of God.
Examination of the history and culture of Jesus' life and ministry does not set itself against the heart-felt confession of Jesus is Lord. We have difficulty reconciling the two-faith and scholarship. Though it is through faith we are saved by grace, lest anyone should boast, God is still present in all of our attempts at understanding the Mystery of the Cross.
Grace and Peace to you, Dwight in WV
Date: 20 Mar 2000
Time: 17:55:40
Of course we must apply our minds, but get in trouble when we think our wisdom supercedes God's. Interesting about jews want signs and greeks want wisdom. I was wondering if we could say in our modern times that oldliners want wisdom and mega-churches/para churches want signs. In the end, Christ is both sign and wisdom... Q in Ct
Date: 21 Mar 2000
Time: 03:23:07
To Dwight in WV
Of course friend - just asking or considering the question itself answers it.
My point is about final words and authority. Many facts from 50 years ago - 100 years ago are now laughed at. Our facts about things and our reason is dm and partial. But God's Word is, for me, alive and active!
We must bring every gift to the service of God, but I believe all must come under God's sovereign rule.
The NY Sheepdog
Date: 21 Mar 2000
Time: 20:34:15
I have been trying to synthesize the readings for this week. I see the 10 commandments and the psalm together, and the apparent foolishness/curiousness of Jesus turning the tables and Paul's comment about the perishing as going together, but until a discussion I had yesterday I have not been able to put them together. Let me explain. A not-yet Christian (i'm working on him!) and I were having a discussion, and he brought up the 10 commandments. He stated plainly that he could see the value in the 10 commandments, esp. in the civil portion of the 10, for they were beneficial to all humanity provided everyone would follow them. But because he does not believe in eternity/life after death, he could not see following these rules for some eternal reward, only for the temporal reward (cosmic harmony). In short, here's my thought for Tuesday: yes, the Law of God makes sense even to an unbelieving world, even if they are unwilling to abide by them, for they help insure a harmonious existence for all life. But the point where the unbeliever stumbles is the cross, for it doesn't make sense that a God would submit to an ugly death in order to bring eternal life, esp. if they don't believe in an afterlife.
Still ruminating, UMPREACH
Date: 21 Mar 2000
Time: 20:56:01
To Dwight in WV: Remember me from seminary? I had chokmah! Mike in Freeport, Texas
Date: 22 Mar 2000
Time: 15:34:43
I am looking at the Gospel lesson and the Epistle lesson together. The title of my sermon is: "In retrospect . . ." - The Potential for Wisdom. In this Lenten season as we "look back" upon the passion of Jesus, we are very much like the disciples who only understood in retrospect. So often, we gain wisdom and understand more of God's wisdom when we give ourselves permission to look backward on our lives. Any Comments welcome. Donna in SC
Date: 22 Mar 2000
Time: 18:03:40
Newsweek this week (I believe its the March 27 edition?) has Jesus on the cover and an interesting article about how the other major religions view Jesus. The article describes how many of those outside Christianity find several points of interest or admiration for Jesus, but in the end they get hung up on the crucifixion (so to speak!) and indeed consider it to be foolishness. May be some interesting material for a sermon there....
Steve in Indiana
Date: 23 Mar 2000
Time: 15:55:30
I am working with the word stumbling block concept. "Jews look for signs" Happens today in many of our science driven manufacturing companies, demand proof of results. Greeks look for wisdom. Happens today. There is an amazing story about the "The Smart Guy" on 20/20. He is of the Mensa IQ charts, and claims that he can scientifically prove God exsists, but he works as a bouncer, and lives in a hut. As he said in interview, there is no logical correlation.
I am working now on the relavnt stumbling blocks to those in my pews. Reliance on politicans or governmental programs, on national intellegince, reliance on self -demonstriated in anxity. All of which cause us be disapointed, and to stumble.
And of course the answer, --J.C. where there is no stumbling, because he catches us before we fall. RevRon between intellegience and wealth.
Date: 23 Mar 2000
Time: 19:35:03
Friends,
Up to this point in Lent, I've been addressing the OT, the NT and the Gospel readings together, and using the epistle text as the basis for interpreting both the OT and Gospel passages. The first Sunday was the covenant with Noah and Peter's teachings on baptism. Last Sunday was the covenant with Abraham and Paul's teachings on justification by faith. This one has got me mostly stumped, although I can see an avenue to pursue: Paul's teaching on the "foolishness of the cross" really does cut against both the Gentiles' demand for reason and the Jews' appeal for a sign. Both Jews and Gentiles were looking for God on their terms. The Jews especially had the Law and their whole heritage of God's saving acts as their "grounding" for their knowledge of God. But Christ on the cross cuts against much of epistomology, just as Jesus' cleansing of the temple redefined and clarified what the Law and the Prophets said about righteousness before God.
The challenge for this week is to reexamine the Decalogue in the light of cross of the crucified Savior, and to bring to our congregations some suggestions on how the "shalts" and "shalt nots" now find expression in the lives of today's disciples.
AO in PO
Date: 23 Mar 2000
Time: 23:19:58
The Epistle this week seems to fit more into my theme for lent than the other texts. No one seems to be discussing our need for the cross. The foolishness certainly pertains to those outside the Christian faith who don't even take us seriously enough to find this on the internet or to come to our church and hear the sermon I am preparing. But the stumbling block is convicting for me as I look at my own sinfulness and need for the cross. What about those of us who are in the pews and pulpits who need to be reminded of that sin/forgiveness.
Texas
Date: 24 Mar 2000
Time: 16:54:34
I have been using all three lectionary texts through my lenten services, concentrating on "Covenant." This week, as we look at the Mosaic Covenant, I ask why, after this thorough approach, did God feel the need to send Jesus to die for us, and offer us this new covenant? The epistle answers the question. Therefore, Jesus became the answer to all seekers and questioners, whether looking for signs or wisdom. We are closing all lenten services with the celebration of the covenant, Holy Communion. Thank you all for your comments and insights. I find them very valuable. Blessings!
RevJanet in CNY
Date: 28 Jan 2002
Time: 15:35:07
1 Cor. 1:26ff reads: For consider your call, brethren: not many of you were wise according to earthly standards, not many were powerful, not many of noble birth; but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong, God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. He is the source of your life in Jesus Christ, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption; therefore as it is written, "Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord."
Now that'll preach!
Date: 28 Jan 2002
Time: 15:35:23
1 Cor. 1:26ff reads: For consider your call, brethren: not many of you were wise according to earthly standards, not many were powerful, not many of noble birth; but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong, God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. He is the source of your life in Jesus Christ, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption; therefore as it is written, "Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord."
Now that'll preach! Fr Sully
Date: 28 Jan 2002
Time: 17:32:50
If one wre preaching using all three verses for Sunday, one could start with the epistle about the foolishness of God and use the Gospel as an example (what is this foolishness about blessing those who persecute you, anyway?) and close with Micah lesson showing that God is not impressed with what we or others think about ourselves, but rather our heart says about our relationship with God. B Rock in HI
Date: 29 Jan 2002
Time: 18:12:46
It seems to me that over and over, God continues to try to help us understand that it is not what we do or say, what we read or learn that helps us to know God and the things of God. It is relationship with God that liberates the soul! If it was anything we could do ourselves, we would surely be lost.
Date: 31 Jan 2002
Time: 10:11:17
What is the wisdom of this age? Such things as winning at all cost (It is almost worse to come to the Super Bowl and lose than not to come at all); achieve at any cost; being self-made, self-sufficient; etc. Can you share any others wisdoms? Today we collect experiences and then move on to the next experience. It is through the cross that we understand that worldly wisdom cannot save us. It is only through the foolishness of the cross.
Tom of MO
Date: 31 Jan 2002
Time: 13:14:42
As I am preparing for Sunday and using both I Cor. and Matthew, this occured to me. Yes, if we have the wisdom of Christ crucified, then the Gospel makes sense. Can we not say with the wisdom of Christ crucified that "living in the kingdom" here and now calls for the wisdom of being poor in spirit; being persons who with the wisdom of Christ, reach out to comfort, identifies us with those who mourn. It is the wisdom of the cross that helps us to start with the second half of the beatitudes...children of God are peacemakers. etc. Any thoughts? lp in CO
Date: 31 Jan 2002
Time: 19:59:23
Two Weeks ago I used a rather large flat limestone rock to talk about Peter, then I added fish nets for last week, this week I am adding shoes.
The Books I refer to are by Neil Douglas-Klotz one is "Prayer of the Cosmos" other is "The Hidden Gospel". He translates the Lord's Prayer and the Beatitudes from "Aramic" to English. The translations are interesting.
here is an example: Blesed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. translated back from Aramic
translated from Aramic Blessed are the gentle; they shall inherit the earth.
Enriched by multimeaning of aramaic language.
Heatlthy are those who have sofened what is rigid within; they shall recieve physical viegor and strength from the universe.
The Hidden Gospel has a dictionary of sorts.
I am still reading all this. I am not a language scholar at all!
Nancy-WI